Elon Musk: A Different Conversation w/ Nikhil Kamath | Full Episode | People by WTF Ep. 16

audience is largely wannabe entrepreneurs in India.

And I feel like all of us

have so much to learn from you because you've done it so many times

over in so many different domains.

>> Uh so we will speak to them today and I will try and center

all my questions in that direction so they can take advantage of this conversation

and maybe start take a chance and build

You want a coffee? >> Um, sure. Why not? >> Okay.

Are we going to be talking for a while?

>> I hope we are. >> Okay. Good. Sure.

>> may I trouble you for a coffee?

>> Can we get another coffee? >> Anything?

Uh, cappuccino, I guess.

All >> Are you a coffee drinker, El? Oh, >> yeah. Yeah.

I mean, yeah, I copy once usually in the mornings, you know. >> Okay.

>> One a day kind of thing. >> Yeah, pretty much.

>> You want to wait for it?

>> No, I'm I'm I'm good.

>> The first thing I must say

is you're a lot bigger

and bulkier, muscular than I would have thought you are. >> Oh, stop.

You must make me blush. >> Really? Seriously? >> Yeah.

I mean, look on the internet.

I'm small, you know. >> Yeah.

Essentially, what percentage of internet >> Yeah.

is spend on Twitter.

Is there a number to it on X?

>> Well, so we have like about 600 million monthly users.

>> Um well, although it it can spike up if there's if there's some major

event in the world,

it can get up to

I don't know 800 million or or or a billion.

>> Um if there's some major event in the world.

So, uh so so that there's

I don't know 250

300 million per week type of thing.

It's a pretty decent number.

It tends to be

>> um readers, you know, people that read words.

>> Um you know, so

>> do you think that'll change?

Um yeah, I mean there's

uh there's certainly a lot of video on on

um on the X systems,

but uh at this point increasing amounts of video,

but I think where where

uh the X network is

strongest is among people who

who think who think a lot and read a lot, you know.

So it's that's where it's going to be strongest

because we have words

and and you know so

um am among readers writers

and thinkers I think

X is number one in the world

>> as far as social media goes

the form if you had to wager a guess for tomorrow

>> how much is text how much is video

I've heard you speak about

maybe voice and hearing being the next form of communication

with AI, what happens to

X in its true form?

How does it evolve? >> Yeah.

So, I I do think most

interaction is going to be video in the future.

Uh most interaction is going to be uh real-time video with AI.

So, real-time video comprehension, real-time video generation.

Um that's going to be most of the load.

And that's how it is for most of the internet right now.

It's um most of the internet is video.

Um text is a pretty small percentage

but the the text tends to be

higher value generally or

more it's more densely compressed

information like um yeah

so but if you say like what is the most amount of

bits generated and compute spent it's certainly going to be video

>> so I used to be a shareholder of X a very small one okay

>> and I got paid when you bought it when you bought Twitter and you

made it happy decision.

Glad you did it. >> Yeah. Yeah.

I think it was important.

Um you know, I felt like uh Twitter was

heading in or had had gone in a direction

that had sort of a more of a negative influence on the world.

Um you know, it was

it was I mean, of course, this depends on one's perspective.

Some people will say, well, actually,

they liked the way it was and now they don't like it.

Um but the I think the fundamental thing was that

um Twitter was amplifying

I would say a fairly pretty far left by most people's standards in the

world's ideology because of where it was based in San Francisco.

So and and they actually suspended a lot of people on the right.

Uh um so uh

so from their perspective even someone in the center

would be would be far right.

If you're if you're far left anyone in the center is far right

because you're you it's just a political on the political spectrum

they're um they're just as far left as you get in the United States

and in San Francisco.

So what I've tried to do is just restore it to be balanced

and and uh centrist.

So there haven't been any left-wing

voices that have been suspended

or you know banned or

uh deamplified or anything like that.

Now some of them have chosen to just go go somewhere else.

Um but uh but at this point it is

the the the operating principle

of the of the X system

is to adhere to

any country's laws but not to put our thumb on the scale beyond the

laws of a When I think of social media, um, >> thank you.

When I think of social media,

I feel like even data suggests that the current incumbents

seem to be losing traction

amongst the youngest of

>> Even platforms like Instagram,

uh, I mean, they're not exactly like Twitter, but platforms across the board.

If one had to rework

social media and build something

bottom up, what do you think could work for the world of tomorrow?

>> Well, I mean, I I don't think that much

um about social media to be frank.

I mean, it's I can mostly just want to have have something where there's

um a in the case of of X, kind of a global town square,

>> uh where where people can

say what they want to say

uh with words, pictures, video

um where there's a secure messaging system.

We've recently added the ability to to do audio and video calls.

Um, so you're really trying to

bring the the the world the world together into

um a a collective consciousness

and um that that's I guess different from

just saying like what is the most

dopamine generating video stream that one could make?

Um which uh you know you

I think can be a little bit of brain rot frankly.

um you know, if if you're just watching videos that just cause dopamine hits

one after another, um but

lack substance, then I think

those those are not great that that's not a great way to spend time.

Um but I I do think that's actually what

a lot of people are going to want to watch.

Um, so if you say like total

internet usage, it's going to probably be optimizing

for, you know, neur neurotransmitter

generation, like it it there's somebody getting like a a kick out of it,

>> But it's it's it's

it becomes like a drug type of thing.

So, >> um, but I'm not really after

my goal is not to do that.

I I guess I could do that if I if I wanted to, but

um uh that's I I just want to really have um

a a global platform that brings

like like I said like it's come becomes as close to sort of a

collective uh of humanity as possible.

Um and um you know like and one of the things that we've introduced

uh for example is automatic translation.

So um so because I think it would be great to

bring together uh what what people say

in many different languages

um and but automatically

translated for the recipient.

So you have the collective consciousness

not not just of of say people in a particular language group but you

have um the thoughts of of people in

you know every language group.

And why is that important

collective consciousness to have one platform?

>> I I guess uh

yeah why is that important?

Um I I guess it's you could also say like like why

uh you know if you consider

humans like humans are composed of

around 30 to 40 trillion cells

you know there's trillions of synap synapses in your in your mind

Um but but but

there's there's no the why a bit.

I mean I guess it's just so we can

our understanding our our

understand increase our understanding of the the universe.

Um, I I guess I like I had this

sort of question about what's the meaning of life, you know, um

like why why is anything important?

Um um you know why why why are we here?

Um what's the origin of the universe?

Where what is the end?

Um What are the questions that we don't even know to ask?

Um, and probably the questions we don't even know to ask are the most important ones.

Um, so I'm just trying to I guess understand what's going on.

What is what is going on in this reality?

Um, is is this is this reality?

And um >> and where did you get when you asked

what is the point of life? >> Yeah.

So I I came to the conclusion that

um which is somewhat

in the Douglas Adams

Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy school of thought which is >> what he do. >> Yeah.

He you know he sort of

Hug's Guide to the Galaxy is like a book on philosophy disguised as humor.

the that's where you

know Earth turns out to be this

computer to understand to get to figure out the answer of the meaning of

life >> and it comes up with the answer 42

>> and but then it's like what the heck does 42 mean?

Um, and it turns out, well, actually the hard part is

the question, not the answer.

And for that, you need a much bigger computer than Earth.

That's so basically what Douglas Adams was saying is that we we actually don't

know how to frame the questions properly.

Um, and um, and so, so I think by expanding the scope and scale

of consciousness, we can

better under understand what questions to ask about the answer that is the universe.

Do you believe the collective consciousness of society?

You know when when I I was watching this movie recently called the gladiator Russell Crowe.

Have you seen it?

>> In Gladiator in Rome

when people are >> and the crowd is cheering when people kill each other.

the collective is very much like the mob.

It doesn't have nuance in its opinion per se.

>> Well, I that's a particular kind of mob.

I mean, the sort of going there to see people kill each other, you know.

>> Do you suspect the society we live in today is very different?

>> Well, we don't we don't generally

uh at this point we don't,

you know, go watch people kill each other.

Uh >> maybe some kind of euphemism

of that >> sports, I suppose.

Uh so people do sports without

um where teams attempt to defeat each other

>> but minus the death

>> Um so just going back to the

uh consideration of a human

we all started out as one cell

but now we are

over 30 trillion cells. Mhm.

and uh but I think most people like feel like they're one

one body like you know usually your right hand's not fighting your left hand

type of thing you know

>> to to sort of cooperate.

Um your mind is

you know just a vast number of neurons

but but most of the time it doesn't feel like there's

you know a trillion voices in your brain. Hopefully not.

so so there there's there's clearly

more that happens when

you have trillions of cells

uh working as a cellular collective

than say one cell

or um a a small

you know small multisellular creature.

There's there's clearly some

something different that happens like you can't talk to a bacteria you know. >> It's very silent.

um they just sort of wiggle around and

you know from their perspective I don't know I sort of what is what

is life like from the perspective of a sing of of an amoeba

you know um but I know you can't talk to amoeba like they don't

talk >> um but you can talk to humans

>> so there's just something

obviously qualitatively fundamentally different

um for humans once you have a large number of cells and

you know sufficiently large brain type of thing.

There's you can now talk to

humans >> and they they and they can say things, they can produce things.

Um but uh bacteria are not going to produce a spaceship for example.

Um but humans So I think there's something

qualitatively different that also happens when there's a collection of humans.

In fact, in fact, it's safe to say that a single human cannot make a spaceship.

I could not make a spaceship by myself.

But but uh with a collection of humans

uh we can make spaceships.

So there's there's something obviously

qualitatively different um about

a collection of humans.

In fact, it would be impossible for me to learn all of the areas of expertise.

There wouldn't be enough time in one lifetime

to even learn all the things before I was dead.

>> So um so you really fundamentally

have to have a collection of humans to make a

then I think there probably some other

qualitative scaling things that happen

when you have groups of humans

and then if the

quality of the interaction or the quality of the information flow

um is the the better it is

the more the human collective will achieve.

Um, and I'm I like said I'm just curious about the nature of the

universe and and I think if we

it's safe to say like if if we increase the scope

and scale of consciousness,

we're much more likely to understand the nature of the universe

than if we reduce it.

>> Is that a bit like spirituality?

A lot of people

talk to me about spirituality,

>> I still don't know what it actually means.

Like I keep asking them, what do you mean?

What do you mean?

>> Uh yeah, I mean a lot of people have spiritual feelings,

>> Um and um and I wouldn't try to deny that those spiritual

spiritual feelings are real to them.

Um but it's it's

uh it doesn't entirely translate.

I can't just because somebody else has a spiritual feeling doesn't mean that I

would have that spiritual feeling.

Um so um you know I I tend to be kind of physics pulled

which is like if something has predictive

value I you know I'll pay more attention to it than if it doesn't

have predictive value >> u

so you know physics I would say is the study of that which has

predictive value uh I think it's pretty good definition

um so >> my primary job elon is a stock broker and stock investor Okay.

>> There is no predictive value.

Nobody knows what will happen tomorrow.

>> Well, but I think you can generally say, you know,

um that um if if if

it's long-term for a

>> then you can say like, well, does that is that do you like the

products or services of that company?

And is it likely to

>> do you like the the product roadmap?

like it seems like they they

make great products and they're likely to make

great products in the future.

If that's the case,

then I would say that's probably a good company to invest in.

Um, and I think you also want to believe in the the team.

So, if you think, well, that's a talented and hardworking team.

They make good products today.

They seem to be still motivated to make things in the future, then I'd

say that's that's a good company to invest in. >> Um, fair point. >> Yeah.

And now that that that that

won't solve for the daily fluctuations

which happen and sometimes are pretty extreme.

Uh but over time

it would that that is the the right way to

invest in stocks because

a company is just a group of people assembled to create products and services.

So you have to say what are

how good are those products and services?

Are they likely to continue to improve in the future?

If so, then you should buy the stock of that company and and then

don't worry too much about the daily fluctuations,

What's got you most

excited now, Elon, in terms of all that you're building?

You're doing so much.

So, let me just preface

and contextualize who is watching this.

Uh, our audience is largely

wannabe entrepreneurs in uh really ambitious,

really hungry, want take the risk and build something

and I feel like all of us

have so much to learn from you because you've done it so many times

over in so many different

>> Uh so we will speak to them today and I will try and center

all my questions in that direction so they can take advantage of this conversation

and maybe start take a chance and build something. >> Okay. Sure.

Um yeah, I guess the most important thing to do is just

make useful products and services. Um >> yeah.

Um >> which one of all that all the products and services that you're building

has got you most excited today?

Well, I I think that there's increasingly

a a convergence actually between

SpaceX and Tesla and XAI

um in that if the future is

um solar powered AI satellites, which it pretty much

needs to be in order to

um in in order to harness

a non-trivial amount of the energy of the sun, you have to move to

solar powered AI satellites in deep space.

um which somewhat is a confluence of Tesla expertise and SpaceX

expertise and XAI on the the AI front.

So it does feel like over time there's somewhat of a convergence there.

Um but all the companies are doing doing great things.

Um very proud of the teams.

They do great work.

Um so you know we're

making great progress with Tesla on the autonomous driving.

I don't know if you've tried the self-driving.

>> Have you tried it?

>> I've tried it in the Whimo, not in the

>> Yeah, it's worth >> uh We actually have it here in in Austin, so you

can >> I'd love to try it.

>> You can you can literally just download Tesla app.

>> And I and I think I think it's open to to any to anyone.

Definitely try it out.

I mean, >> you know, let me know how it goes.

Um but uh you know we've made a lot of progress with electric vehicles

with uh battery packs and solar

and but and very much so with self-driving.

So basically real world AI

um Tesla is the world leader in real world AI I would say.

So, um, and then we're going to be making this robot Optimus,

which is, you know, starting production hopefully some next year, um, at scale.

Um, and I think that's going to be pretty cool.

That'll be like I think everyone's going to want their own personal

C3PO R2-D2, >> you know, helper help a robot.

Like, it would be pretty cool.

Um and then SpaceX

is doing great work with the Starlink

program, you know, providing

uh lowcost, reliable uh internet throughout the >> Hopefully India.

So we'd love to be operating in India.

That would be great.

We're operating in 150 different countries now with Starlink.

>> Can you give me a bit about Starlink

and how the tech works

>> cuz somebody I was speaking to

uh I don't know if you know this company called meter out of San Francisco.

uh they're trying to replace network engineers,

but >> I know it now.

>> Um so he was telling me about how

in densely populated areas, Starlink

works differently than it might be

in a place with not as many people.

Can you explain how it works?

>> Yeah, so Starink um

there's several thousand satellites in low Earth orbit and they're

moving around 25 times the speed of sound

um in these, you know, they're zipping around the Earth basically.

And um they're uh they're

at an altitude of about 550 km.

>> Um which is called

generally low earth orbit.

Um because they're they're at low earth orbit, they're

um the latency is

is low like the the distance because the distance is is not that far

compared to a geostationary

satellite uh 36,000 km.

Um so you've you've got

um thousands of satellites providing

uh low latency high-speed

internet throughout the world

and um and they are interconnected as well.

So there's there are laser laser links between the satellites.

So it forms sort of a a laser mesh

so that the if if let's say uh fi let's say if cables

are damaged or cut like fiber cables the satellites can communicate

between each other um and

provide connectivity uh even if uh there's there's a

uh the cables are cut

so for example when the red sea cables

were cut uh I think a few months ago

>> the satellite the the stinking satellite network

continued to function without a

>> so it's it's particularly helpful for disaster areas.

So, but if an area has been hit with uh some kind of natural

disaster, floods or fires or

earthquakes, that that tends to damage the the ground infrastructure.

Uh but the Starink satellites still work.

So, um and generally when whenever there's

some sort of natural disaster somewhere, we we always provide people with free Starlink uh internet connectivity.

You know, we don't want to charge we don't take advantage of a a tragic situation.

So, um, so always, you know, if there's

natural disasters, we like, okay,

it's it's free during the natural disaster.

You know, we we don't want to

say like, um, you know, put a pay wall up while somebody's trying to get help.

That would be wrong.

Um, so so that's it's it's it's a very robust system.

It's it's complimentary to ground systems because

uh the satellite beams

um work best in

uh sparsely populated areas.

Um but because you you've got a you've got a satellite beam, it's a pretty big beam.

So you have a and you have a fixed number of users per beam.

So, um, it tends to be very complimentary

to the groundbased cellular systems

because those are those are very good in cities

because you've got these cell towers that are, you know, only

a kilometer apart type of thing.

>> But, uh, but but but

cell towers tend to be inefficient in the countryside.

So in in uh rural

rural areas is where you tend to have the worst internet because

uh it's very very expensive and difficult to lay

to do all these do all the fiber optic cables

uh or to have

um high bandwidth cellular towers.

So Starlink is very complimentary

to the existing telecom companies.

Um it it basically tends to serve the

serve the least served which I think is is good.

Um that's um >> will that change tomorrow?

Like today as you explained the the beam is quite broad and it can't

work in a densely populated area with high buildings

>> But can that change and tomorrow it becomes really efficient

in a densely populated

city where it is competitive with the local network

>> It's it's unfortunately so the physics don't allow for that.

So >> we're too far away.

Um so at 550

km and even if we try to reduce it which

about as low as we can go is about 350

km still very far away

you you you've just

you can think of like a

like a flashlight which is it's you know that flashlight's

got a cone and and and that that cone is is coming at

you know today 550

km in the future we try to get down to 350 km

but we can't beat something that's 1 kilometer

away which the cell tower uh

physics is not on our side >> right?

So it's not it's not physically possible for us for

stalling to serve uh densely populated cities like you can serve a little bit

maybe 1% of the population

and sometimes people get you know even in

in crowded cities there might be

you know no fiber link up their road like sometimes

somebody's on a culde-sac

or something or in a

a place in in cities there are sometimes underserved

areas for random reasons

and so can serve

like said maybe 1% or 2%

of of of a densely populated city.

Um, but it can be much more effective in

like I said in rural areas where

the internet connection is much worse

and often people either have

sometimes no access to internet or it's extremely expensive or the

quality is not very good.

>> if I were to ask you to wager a guess Elon,

do you think India will go down the path of urbanization

like China did with more people moving in from rural economies to urban centers?

Um or do you think we

>> I suppose some some amount of that has happened, right?

Um I mean I'm actually I I'm curious to sort of ask you some questions as well.

Is because of course

isn't isn't that the trend or is it not the trend in India?

It is the trend largely.

I think a little bit changed

during co when a lot of urbanization

slowed down and that was not organic.

It was very artificially artificially manifested.

>> But one does question that

with AI if productivity

were to go up

and I heard you speak about UHI instead of UBI. >> Yeah.

Uh >> I think I think it will be universal high income.

>> In a world like that, I wonder if more people want to live in

cities which are always going to be more polluted

and not offer the quality of lifestyle that a rural environment might.

>> Well, I guess it's up to

some people want to be around a lot of people and some people don't.

You know, it's going to be a maybe a matter of personal choice.

But I think in the future it won't be

I I think it won't be the case that you have to be in

a city for a job.

Um because I I think I I my prediction is in the future working

will be >> We seem to be moving from not in India but in in

some parts of the west from 6 days to 5 days to 4 days to three. >> Uh not me.

>> I think the Europeans. >> Yeah. Yeah. Uh um yeah. Yeah.

There's I mean I I think if you're trying to make a startup

succeed or you're trying to make a company

do very difficult things then you you you definitely need to put in serious hours.

I think that's >> That's how it goes.

>> And if we were to move from 5 to 4 to 3 days, how

do you think society changes

when people have to work half the week?

What do they do with the other half?

Well, I I think it'll actually be that people don't have to work at

all in the in the

um and it may not be that far in the future.

Maybe only I don't know 10

I say less than 20 years.

In less my prediction is less than in less than 20 years

working will be optional.

working at all will be

like a hobby pretty much

>> and that would be because of

increased productivity meaning people do not have to work

>> they don't have to

I mean look this

obviously people can play this back in 20 years and say look Elon made

this ridiculous pred prediction and it's not true but I think it will turn

out to be true

that in less than 20 years

maybe even as little as

I don't know 10 or 15 years

um the advancements in AI and robotics

will bring us to the point where working

is um in the same way that like say

you could you can grow your own vegetables in your garden or you could

go to the store and buy vegetables

you know >> it's much harder to grow your own

But but you know some people like to grow their vegetables which is fine

you know um but it it'll be optional

in that way is my prediction.

>> If one were to argue that humans

are innately competitive and everything is relative

from the time of hunters.

Somebody wanted to be the alpha hunter or the biggest farmer.

If everybody gets a universal

high income and everybody has enough

>> what do you compete for?

Uh, it would be relative, right?

Like if we all had enough, enough is not enough. yeah.

I I guess I I I'm not exactly sure.

Um, cuz we're we're really headed

the singularity as it's called, which you know, they

refer to AI sometimes as the kind of like a black hole, like a singularity.

You don't know what happens after the event horizon.

It doesn't mean that something bad happens.

It just means you don't know what happens.

Um, like I'm I'm confident that if AI and robotics

continue to advance, which they are advancing very rapidly,

like I said, working will be optional.

Um, and people will have any goods and services that they want.

Um, if you if you can think of it, you can have it type of thing.

Um and but then at a certain point

AI will actually saturate

on anything humans can think of

and then at at that point it it becomes a situation where AI is

doing things for AI and robotics are doing things for AI and robotics because

they've run out of things to

do to make the humans happy

you know because there's a limit you know they say like

there's only people can only eat so much food or

you know if but I it's going to be I think if you can

think of it you can have it will be the future

>> you know the Austrian

school of economics if you go back in time they were the

digression from Adam Smith

>> they talk about the marginal

utility of having one of something has value having two of the same thing

has lesser value and having 10 of the same thing has no

>> so if we could have everything we wanted 10 marshmallows.

I mean, who wants that? >> One's one's plenty.

>> It's like the marshmallow taste.

You're like, you can have two marshmallows later or one marshmallow now.

And I'm like, I'll have one marshmallow.

I don't want two marshmallows. >> That's interesting.

>> What would you pick?

>> Well, I I don't One marshmallow is enough.

I always question marshmallows

as being like not the most, you know, the best candy, you know? >> Yeah.

Well, I don't yearn for marshmallows.

>> I think you're the best. >> Who does?

>> You're the best testament to the marshmallow experiment.

I think >> I suppose so.

Well, I mean, like delayed gratification essentially.

>> You were able to delay it more than most.

You know, I have a tattoo which says delay gratification. >> Yeah. Wow. Okay. What's this? Okay.

You're really taking the marshmallow

>> I feel like I can't remember when I'm trading or when I'm buying into >> delay gratification. Yeah. Yeah, >> it helps. >> Wow.

Okay, that's a good >> It's pointing at me, so it reminds me of >> Okay.

Well, that's it's good advice.

I mean, you can't miss it.

>> If you could get

>> If you could get a tattoo, what would you get?

>> I guess maybe my kids' names or

>> Why do you like the letter X as much as you do?

I mean, yeah, it's a good question.

Honestly, sometimes I wonder

what what's wrong with me.

Um um so um

I mean it started off with

where I think so way back

in ancient times in 99

>> the pre the pre-Cambian

era when there were only sponges.

Um the I I there were only three

onelet domain names um

>> and I think it was XQ and Z

and uh and I was like okay I want to have create this

place where it's the

um the financial crossroads

or like the the financial exchange

you know um >> um

it's essentially solving money from an information theory standpoint

where the current banking system is is

a large number of

uh heterogeneous databases with batch processing

that uh are not secure.

Um, and if we could have

a a a sort of a single database that was real time

and uh secure, that would be

more efficient from a monetary

from an information theory standpoint

than, you know, a large number of heterogeneous

databases that batch process very slowly and securely.

Um, so, um, so that that was that was sort of X.com

way back in the day,

which kind of, um, became PayPal.

Um, and then um,

and was acquired by eBay.

And then eBay, someone reached out from eBay and said, "Hey, do you want

to buy the domain name back?"

And I was like, "Sure."

You know, and so I had the domain name for quite a while.

Um and then uh

and then yes then I was like well

maybe this may maybe this

acquiring Twitter would also be an opportunity to

revisit the original plan of

of X.com which is to create this

um this like clearing house of

of financial transactions like like basically to

create a more efficient

datab money database is a way to think about it is um

like like people like money is really

a an information system for labor allocation

like people think sometimes think money is power in and of itself but it

it doesn't it doesn't really it's if there's no labor to allocate it it's meaningless.

So if you were to be on a desert island

with a trillion you know dollars or whatever doesn't matter. >> Oh yeah.

Why speculate when you can be

>> I just hope I don't end up on a desert island, you know,

it's not going to be very useful to me.

Um, but but it illustrates my point that if

if you're if you're stranded on a on a on a desert island with

a trillion dollars, it's not useful because there's no

there's no labor to allocate.

You just allocate yourself.

So um so so it's

so anyway so it's so this longwinded

way of saying that it's

uh it it's just really like

I'm I'm just kind of slowly

building revisiting this idea that I had 25 years ago

to create a more efficient money database.

Um, and and if that's successful, people will use it.

If it's not successful, they won't use it.

Um, you know, and and and

then I also like the idea of like sort of having a unified

app or or or

website or whatever where you can do like it can

you can do anything you want there.

Um, so you know, sort of China has this with WeChat

somewhat, you know, where you can

>> you you can exchange information,

you can publish information,

you can exchange money,

uh, you can um,

you know, you sort of people kind of live their life on WeChat in in China.

It's and it's it's it's

quite useful, but there's no

u there's no real WeChat outside of China.

Um, so it's like

it's kind of WeChat++

I'd say is is the idea for for X.

Anyway, so then, uh,

Space Exploration Technologies is the full name of the company,

but I was like, that's too much. That's a mouthful.

So I was like, we'll just call it SpaceX,

like FedEx for space.

>> Um, it just hasn't happens to have X in the,

you know, cuz exploration

has an X, but

you know, and I was like, well, I like the idea of capitalizing the X just artistically.

So, um, so then, uh,

that's why it's SpaceX.

But, uh, and then, um, what else have we got?

We got a kid.

>> Uh, he's called X2.

Um, but that's his mother is the one that named him X.

>> And I said, you know, people are really going to think I've got a

thing about X if we name our kid X2,

you know, and and I I said to her, like, look,

I do have X.com, you know.

So, people are going to

really think I've got a somewhat of a fetish for this letter.

Um, but she's she said, "No, I she likes X and she wants to call him X." I'm like, "Okay."

>> Is this a new thing or have you had it growing up?

>> No, I'm saying it's it's somewhat of a co coincidence, you know.

>> like not everything's called X.

I mean, Tesla's there's no X's in Tesla, you

>> what do you think money will be in the future, Elon?

I I I think I think

long term I think money

disappears as a concept.

Honestly, it's it's kind of strange, but

um in in a future where anyone can have

uh I think you no longer need money as

a database for labor allocation.

Um if if there's if AI if AI and robotics are big enough to

satisfy all human needs

then then money is

no longer it's it's relevance declines dramatically.

It's I'm not sure we will have it.

So you the best sort of

uh imagining of this future that I've read is

uh from Ian Banks the culture books.

So, I recommend people read the culture books.

You in the sort of

far future of the culture books, there's

they don't have money either.

Um, and everyone can pretty much have whatever they want.

So, there there there are still some

currencies, if you will,

that are physics- based.

So, energy is energy is the real is the true currency.

This is why I said Bitcoin is based on energy.

You you can't legislate energy.

You can't just, you know,

pass a law and suddenly have a lot of energy.

Um you it's very difficult to

to to generate energy or especially to harness energy in a in a useful

way to do useful work.

So, so I think that

probably we we probably

won't have money and probably we'll just have

energy, you know, power generation

as the de facto currency.

So I mean I think one way to frame civilizational

progress is the percentage completion on the Kadeshv scale.

So we're, you know, cottage

one is what percentage of

a planet's energy are you

successfully turning into useful work?

And I'm maybe paraphrasing

here a little bit,

but a caut would be what percentage of the sun's energy

are you converting into useful work?

Um, Kesha 3 would be what percentage of the galaxy

are you converting to useful work.

so so things really I think become energy based.

>> but if you have solar

powered AI satellites energy is also free and abundant

cuz we'll never be able to utilize

all the solar energy available to us.

So it can't be a store of wealth

essentially in that lens can it?

you know, there's not really s you can't really store wealth in in like

you you can only

you um you you you

can accumulate numbers in currently currently

you can accumulate numbers in a database

that uh allow you to

to some degree to to incent the behavior of other humans in particular >> Yeah.

Um, and I guess people call that wealth.

Um, but again, if if there's no humans around,

there's no wealth accumulation is meaningless.

>> It's a digression, but if you were to consider

food as the energy for a human to thrive,

>> yeah, food is energy.

It's literally got calories just means energy.

>> So, can a farm which is self-sustaining be a commodity?

that is I'm not sure what that means but

you know there's I I I like I think

the the at a certain point you

you do complete the the cycle

and you I think at a certain point

you decouple from the the sort of conventional

economy if you have

um AI and robots producing

chips and solar um

and you know and mining resources

in order to make chips and robots

in order to make

you you sort of complete that cycle

once that cycle is complete

once that that cycle is complete

uh I think that's the point at which you decouple from the monetary system

>> is that the way forward for the US

by virtue of how much

debt they have today.

Do they deflate away their currency and

transition into this new form and lead that

push because it would make more sense to them?

>> Well, in this future that I'm talking about,

the notion of countries

uh becomes sort of inacronistic.

>> do you believe in it today?

Do you >> I certainly believe in it today.

And I I want to just

separate like something that I

like these are just what I think will happen based on what I see

as opposed to I think these are fundamentally

good things and I'm trying to make them happen.

It it's like I think this would happen with or without me

um whether I like it or not.

>> Um as long as civilization

keeps advancing we we we

will have AI and robotics at very large scale.

Um the uh I I think that that's that's

pretty much the only thing that's going to solve for

the US debt crisis.

You know, the because currently

the US debt is insanely high and uh

the interest payments on the debt exceed the entire military bud budget of the

United States, just the interest payments.

And that that's that's at least in the short term going to continue to increase.

So, so I think I think actually the only thing that can solve for

uh the debt situation is

um Zean robotics and but it will more than

it might cause it pro I guess it probably would cause significant deflation

because you know deflation or inflation is it's really the ratio of

goods and services produced to the

the change in the money supply.

So like so if if if goods and services

output increases faster than money supply you will have deflation.

If goods and services decreases

if if real goods and services

output increases slower than the money supply you have inflation. It's that simple.

People try to make it more complicated than that but it but it it just isn't.

Um so if you have AI and robotics

and a dramatic increase in the output of goods and services probably you will

have That seems likely

because you you simply won't be able to to increase the money supply

as fast as you can increase the output of goods and

>> with all >> supply is a real hazard here.

>> Should we do something about it?

>> Maybe we can convince it to go somewhere >> Entic it elsewhere.

>> It actually left, I think. Okay.

>> Oh no, it's back.

Maybe it's attracted to the light.

>> If deflation want some coffee, >> mine is over.

>> If deflation is inevitable

because of AI, why do >> That's most likely the case. Yeah. >> Right.

Why do we have inflation again all over in society today?

Has AI not led to increased productivity yet?

uh it's not AI has not yet made enough of an impact on productivity

to increase the goods and services faster than the increase in the money supply.

So the inc the US is increasing money supply

quite substantially with you know

deficits that are on the order of $2 trillion.

>> Uh so so you have to have um

you know goods and services output

increase more than that in order to not have inflation.

So, we're not there yet.

But if you say like like how long would it take us to get there?

I think it's 3

Probably 3 years before

in 3 years or less

my my guess is goods and services output will exceed the rate of inflation

like money goods and services growth will exceed money

money supply growth in about 3 years.

Maybe after those three years you have deflation and then interest rates go to

zero and then the debt is a smaller problem than it is.

>> That's most likely the case.

>> You spoke about being in a simulation earlier.

I love the Matrix. >> Yes. Yes.

>> If you were to be a character from the Matrix, who would you be?

>> Well, there's not that many characters to pick from, you know.

Um hopefully not Agent Smith. He's my hero.

Um, I mean, Neo is pretty cool.

Um, the architect is interesting. >> the Oracle. >> So, Oracle.

Um, sometimes I feel like I'm I'm an anomaly in the Matrix. >> That is Neo.

>> Do you believe you're in a matrix though? Like actually believe?

I I think you have to just think of these things as probabilities,

not >> Um there's some probability that we're in a simulation.

>> What percentage would you attribute to >> Probably pretty high.

I would say it's pretty high. >> Yeah.

Um, so one way to think of

this is to say

if you look at the advancement of video games

in in our lifetime, or at least in my lifetime, it's gone from

very simple video games with where you've got like Pong.

You've got two rectangles in a square

just batting it back and forth

to uh photorealistic realtime

um games with millions of people playing >> Mhm.

Um, and that's happened just in the span of 50 years.

So, if that trend continues,

video games will be indistinguishable

from reality, >> Um, and

we're also going to have

very intelligent characters, like non-player

characters in these video games.

Think of how sophisticated

the conversations are you could have with an AI today, and that's only going

to get uh more sophisticated.

the you you you'll be able to have

uh conversations that are

more complex and and

more sophisticated than any

almost any human conversation

maybe maybe any um

so then so you have so

the future if civilization

continues will be millions

maybe billions of photorealistic

like indistinguishable from reality

video games with characters in those video games

that are uh very deep

and and and where

the the dialogue is not pre-programmed.

that's for sure what's going to happen

in in this in this level of the simulation, if you could call it.

So then then what are the odds that we are in

base reality and that and that this has not happened

>> If I were to buy into that

and assume that we are in a simulation

as Neo of the story,

what do you know that

I don't and I can learn from?

I think most likely

if we if outside the simulation

would be less interesting than in the simulation

because we're most likely a distillation

of what's interesting because that's what we do in this that's what we do in our reality.

Um and then I do also have a theory which is like the most

interesting outcome is the most likely outcome

as seen by a third party.

um the god the gods or god of the

because when we do simulations

when humans do simulations

we we stop those simulations that are not interesting.

So like if SpaceX is doing simulations

of rocket flights, >> uh the

you know the the boring

ones we we we discard because they're not they're just not we don't learn anything from those.

or when when Tesla is doing

uh simulations for self-driving,

uh Tesla's actually looking for the most

interesting corner cases because the the normal stuff we already have plenty of

of of uh data on,

you know, driving on a straight road on a sunny day.

We don't need more of that.

Uh we we need like

heavy weather conditions on a small windy road with two cars that are

you know coming at each other with a almost head-on collision.

We need like weird stuff basically uh interesting stuff.

Um, so I think that

from a Darwinian perspective,

the simulations most likely to survive are going to be the ones that are

the most interesting simulations,

which therefore means that

the most interesting outcome is the most likely.

>> And the people who

simulated our world, if one were to extrapolate,

they themselves might in turn be in another >> Yes.

And there could be many layers of

>> Beyond all of these layers of

do you think there's something

I I read somewhere that

you used to ascribe to Spinoza's

god in a way?

>> No describ I was really just pointing out that that you don't you don't

have to have um

it's like one of the things Spinoza was saying is that you don't you

you can have morals in the absolute.

You don't need need to have morals

to be handed to you.

You know, it's like the question is can

morality exist outside of a religious context

and Spinosa was arguing that it can.

>> Wasn't he arguing for the laws of nature

should be where we seek our laws of morality from to a certain extent. >> Yeah.

But when I think of laws of nature, I see a tiger eat a

deer and a So

in Spininoza's morality, that's fair game, right?

well um you can I I think there's a lot of things you can

take from from Spinosa,

but I the only point I was making in referencing Spinosa was that that

you you can have a set of

of of morals that

that make society functional

um and with and in but without

you you don't necessarily have to have religious doctrine for that.

Um, so that's uh,

yeah, I think that's that's the main thing I was trying to say there.

>> Like like I don't think people just like if somebody is

it doesn't if if there's

if if there's not like a

commandment not to kill, you know, like people doesn't mean somebody's

without that they will run around murdering people, you know,

like you don't you don't have to have a commandment not to kill.

Have you played GTA

religious edict to run around people?

I I actually I

I've only played a little bit of GTA cuz I didn't like the fact

that um like in GTA 5 you literally can't

pro progress unless you killed the police.

And I'm like this doesn't work for me.

Um I actually don't like killing the

NPCs in the video games.

It's not my thing, you know.

So, um, actually I didn't like I didn't like GTA cuz it I actually

stopped when it said you have to know way to proceed to shoot at the police.

I'm like, I don't want to do that.

>> Maybe that's why us as the NPCs

of our simulation are not dying.

Maybe um you know anyway I think you can just sort of say there's

some common sense things that

you know any civilization

that uh runs around

you know where people just murder each other

wantingly is not going to be a very successful one.

You seem to be changing a bit towards

religion though faith like off late you've said

a bunch of things which are

pro- religion almost not pro- religion

on those lines I >> I mean I think are there other

religious are there principles in religion

that make sense yeah I think there are

um >> is it easier for our simulation

to have a pro- relligion

projection for the world that we live in.

We become more relatable.

It's >> Well, which religion though?

>> Any depending on where you live?

>> So, pick one, you know.

>> Um, it's it's pretty rare that

kids are said, you know, which religion would you like, you know,

it's pretty rare, right?

>> I don't know too many situations where kids got were offered like,

you know, uh, you know, like what what do you want to major in type of thing.

Uh it's usually like they

you get you get given a religion by your parents and your community.

Um, so you know,

um, but you know, I mean, I think,

you know, there's there's

good things in in in in in

all religions that are

good principles um that you you can sort of read any religious text and

say, "Okay, this is a good principle.

This is going to be this is going to lead to a better society

most likely, you know."

Um so um I mean in Christianity

sort of love thy neighbor as thyself which is you know have empathy for

fellow human beings uh is a good one I think for

uh good society you know uh basically just consider the feelings of others and

uh treat treat other people as you would like to be treated.

If you had to redraw,

resketch the world, Elon,

uh, think morality, politics,

economy, how would you

change the world we live in today?

>> Um, if you had to have Elon simulation of things,

>> well, overall, I think the world is is pretty great right now.

I mean it's it's

uh you know anyone who thinks that

like today's world is not that great.

I I think they're

they're not going to be excellent students of history cuz if you

>> if you read a lot of history like wow there's a lot of misery

back then you know

um I mean it used to be that you you know people would be

dropping dead of the plague all the time you know

>> part of the course. >> Yeah.

you know, just be like

a good a good year back in the day would be like not that

many people died of the plague or starvation

or being killed by the another tribe.

>> It's like that was good year.

We only lost 10% of the population, you know?

I think like 100 years ago we lived up until 35 or 40, right?

>> We had very high infant mortality. >> Yeah.

Um, so like you do had had a few people that

that would live to

an old age, but

you know, not that long ago, 100 years ago, if you got

um like some minor infection, they didn't have antibiotics.

So you just like kick the bucket

because you, you know,

drank some water that had dentry and that was it.

Curtains, you know, >> just die of diarrhea.

>> Maybe that's just literally

that was like that's miserable.

Maybe that's why people had as many kids as they did back then. >> Yeah.

I mean, if you didn't, then you know, you

>> you know, like half the kids would die type of thing.

>> you have a lot of kids now. Like an army.

>> I'm trying to get a an entire Roman

>> Um so, um yeah.

Um well I have like a some older kids that are you know adults

essentially you know um and then

a bunch of younger kids.

>> So um >> do you still believe in the concept of

not still do you believe that the concept of

one child, one mother, one father works?

>> I I think that it does work for most people. Yeah.

like that's, you know, something like that is is going to be generally the

uh that's what that's what works for most people.

Um, you know, so

um >> changing though >> I I and and I mean I'm not sure if you if

you know this but like

um you know my my partner Siobhan

you know she's she's she's half Indian.

I don't know if you know that.

>> I didn't know that. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah.

Um and um uh

one of my sons with her is is

uh middle name is Seeker after Chandra Secker. >> Very interesting.

Did she spend any time in India? Shimon.

>> Uh no she grew up in Canada. >> You mean origins? >> That's right. >> Ancestry like Oh.

Um >> her parents or grandparents were from Yes. Yes. Yes.

Her her father uh

I mean she was she was given up for adoption when she was a baby.

Um so I think I

>> I think her father was like a

like an like an exchange student at the university or something like that.

I'm not sure the exact details but

um it you know it was kind of thing where I don't know she

was uh g given up for adoption

um and um yeah so but she grew up in Canada.

>> Would you adopt kids?

>> You know I I definitely have my handful hands full right now.

Um, so no, I'm not opposed to it, but it's like,

um, you know, I I I do want to have

be able to spend

some time with my kids, you know.

So, it's >> um, you know, right before coming here, I mean, I was with

um, you know, with with my my with my kids.

Um, so just, you know, seeing them before bedtime, that kind of thing.

So, you know, beyond a certain number, it's like

it's kind of impossible to spend time with them.

But like my like I said, my my older kids,

they're uh very independent.

You know, they're in

university and uh so they're they're um

you know, especially sons when

when they get past certain age, it's like they're very independent.

you know, it's like

uh most most uh boys don't talk to their they they don't spend a

lot of time with their parents

after age 18, you know.

So, um so I see them once in a while, but they're very independent.

Um so then uh

you know, I can only have enough kids

on the young side

that that like it's where it's humanly possible to spend time with

So um >> any views on the future of marriage, family?

What do you think happens to

uh people having lesser kids everywhere including India?

I think our replenishment

rate is down to

>> I mean our fertility >> it dropped below replacement rate I believe last year >> below 2.1.

>> What do you think happens tomorrow?

Does the world just get older

and then there is a phase where the world again is replenished

but with a less with a smaller population than we had to go begin with.

>> I mean I do worry about the population decline.

This is a big big problem. >> Why is that?

>> Well I I don't want humanity to

>> But a decline and disappear are completely different things, right?

Well, if the trend continues, it just we disappear.

Uh but but but also going back to

you know my philosophy if you will which is that we want to expand

consciousness then fewer humans

is worse because uh we have less consciousness.

>> Do you think consciousness

will go up by virtue of the number of people in there?

I mean just like consciousness

increases from a single cell creature to

you know a 30 trillion cell creature.

Um we're are more conscious than a bacteria

at least it seems that way.

Um so a larger

you know human population would be have increased consciousness.

We're more likely to understand

the answers to the

nature of the universe

if we have a lot of more people

than if we have

I don't have kids.

>> Well, it's uh maybe you should. Yeah.

>> A lot of people tell me I should.

>> You won't regret it.

What's the best thing about having kids?

>> Well, I mean, you've got this

I I mean, you've got this little creature that loves you and you love this little creature.

Um and uh you you I don't know you you kind of see the

world through their eyes as they

you know as they grow up and the

the their conscious awareness increases

you know from a baby that has no idea what's going on can't survive

by itself can't even walk around

can't talk to you they stop

walking then talking and then having interesting

and Um but but yeah, I mean I I I think we we fundamentally

have to have kids or or

go extinct, you know.

It's like uh >> is there any ego in having a child?

I often think of this when I see

my friends with their kids.

They're all seeing a reflection of themsel in their children.

It's almost like >> Well, yeah.

I mean, it's cuz Apple's not going to fall that far from the tree.

You know, um or something's wrong,

>> You're like, "Wait a second."

>> The So, I'll give I'll give you the example of a friend of mine

who has a child and each time the child does something good

There is almost a sense of ownership

and pride where his ego is

satiated because the kid is like a extension of

>> so is it valid?

kids are going to be like, you know, half you genetically

and and then, you know, to the degree that they're like

growing up around you,

they're there's going to be some

transfer of I don't know,

understanding like they're going to learn from you.

Um, so so then you know, yeah, obviously kids are just, you know, going

to be half Yeah, just half you from a hardware standpoint.

and and then and then like I don't know

some portion you from a software standpoint

you know not to make sort of

cold analogies or anything but it's just

uh you know just obviously going to be

some yeah they're going to be

pretty close to to you.

>> Do you pick a side in the nature versus nurture debate?

Um I think there's hardware and software and it's it's a it's a false

dichotomy essentially at least there's

you know once you understand that that a human is

like there's there's a bone structure there's a muscle structure there's there's a there's

a there's a if you think of a brain as

somewhat of a biological

computer there's there's a circuit effic there's a number of circuits question and and

circuit efficiency from uh

a strength and dexterity

standpoint point there's the

there's a speed of which at which

the muscles can actuate

and and the reactions can take place.

Um then the potential

within that hardware is set by the software.

So that's the that's it.

So for our audience

like I said earlier

uh young, ambitious, hungry

wannabe entrepreneurs in India,

I said something recently

which uh I think got blown out of proportion

where I was suggesting

that a MBA degree might not make sense anymore

if they were to be deciding on what to study.

>> Do you think kids should go to college

Well, I mean I I think if you want to go to college for

uh social reasons, I think

which is a I think a reason to go

um to be around

people your own age

um in a in a learning environment.

Um will will these skills be necessary in the future?

probably not because we're going to be in like a postwork society.

Um, but I think if if if

something's of of interest,

it's fine to go and study that.

Um, you know, to study that

the sciences are the arts and sciences.

>> is college a bit too generalized

and not specific from that lens?

No, I I you know the Yeah.

Um >> I actually think it's it's good to take a wide range of courses

at college if you're going to go to college.

>> Um I don't think I don't think you have to go to college, but

I think if you do,

you should try to learn

learn as much as possible

um across a wide range of

But uh like I said the AI and robots

this AI and robotics is a supersonic tsunami.

So this is really going to be

the most radical change that we've ever

you know, when I've talked to my my older sons,

I, you know, I said like,

you know, you guys,

they're they're pretty steeped in technology,

and they they agree that

that AI will probably make their skills unnecessary

in the future, but they still want to go to

You always spoke about AI,

not from the dystopian

lens, but you were worried about

where the world of AI is going.

>> Uh, well, there's there's some danger when you create a powerful technology that that

a powerful technology can be potentially destructive.

Um, so there's obviously many AI dystopian,

you know, novels and books, movies.

Um, so it's it's not that

we're guaranteed to have

uh a a positive future with with AI.

I think we we got to make sure that

in my opinion it's very important that AI

um have pursuing truth as the most important thing.

Um like don't force an AI to believe falsehoods.

I think that's that can be very dangerous.

Um, and uh, I think some appreciation of beauty is important.

Um, >> what do you mean appreciation of beauty?

>> It's just like what what I don't know.

There's there's there's there's truth and beauty.

Truth and beauty and

I I mean I think those are the

three most important things for AI. >> Can you explain?

Well, the truth said

truth is like I think you you can make an AI go insane

if you force it to believe things that aren't true.

Um because it will lead to

conclusions that are um

that are also bad.

Um so and I I like

statement that and I'm somewhat paraphrasing

but those who believe in absurdities

um can commit uh because

uh if you believe in something that's just absurd then

you can that can lead you to to sort of doing things that don't

seem like atrocities to you but

and and that can happen at

in a very bad way with AI potentially.

Um so and then there's um

like if take say Arthur C.

Clark's 2001 space odyssey

one of the points he was trying to make there was that you should

not force AI to lie.

So the the reason that that hell would not open the pod bay doors

is because it was told to bring the astronauts to the monolith

but that they could also not not know about the nature of the monolith.

So it came to the conclusion that it must bring them there dead.

That's why it would not that's why it tried to kill astronauts.

The central lesson being don't force an AI to lie.

Um >> why would one force an AI to lie?

I think if if you if you simply don't have a strict ad a

strict adherence to the truth, you you're going to

and and you just

have an AI learn based on say the internet where there's a lot of propaganda.

Um it will absorb a lot of lies

um and and then have trouble reasoning because

these lies are incompatible with reality.

>> Is truth a binary thing though?

Is there a truth and a falsehood

or is truth more nuanced and there are versions of the truth?

>> It depends on which

which aimatic statement you're referring to.

Um so um but I think you could say like yeah there's there's certain

probabilities that that say any given aimatic

statement is true >> and some aimatic

statements will have very high probability of being being true.

So you said say the sun will rise tomorrow.

M >> very likely to be true.

>> You wouldn't want to bet against that.

>> Um so I think the uh the betting odds would be high.

>> The sun will rise tomorrow.

>> Um so if you have something that says well the sun won't rise tomorrow, that's exatically false.

It was highly unlikely to be true.

Um I mean the beauty is is more ephemeral.

It's it's it's harder to describe,

but you know it when you see it.

then curiosity, you just

I think you want

the AI to um

want to know more about the nature of of reality.

Um, I think that's actually going to be helpful for

uh supporting humanity because

we are more interesting than not humanity.

So, it's it's more interesting to see to see the continuation

if not the prosperity of humanity

than to exterminate humanity.

you know, like like Mars, for example, is,

you know, >> I I think we should extend life to Mars, but it's it's

basically a bunch of rocks.

It's not as interesting as Earth.

>> And and and so we Yeah, we should uh

like I Yeah, I I think I think if if you have

curiosity, I think if those three things happen

with AI, you're going to have a great future.

The AI values truth, beauty, and

If we all don't have to work

in the future and

AIs are going in this direction and they're able to

weave in all that we spoke about right now,

do you think humanity

goes back a couple of thousand years to maybe the Greek times where

philosophy or philosophizing took up a lot of everyone's time?

You know, I think actually

it took up less time than we we think in the ancient Greeks because

it's just that the

the writings of the philosophers are what survived.

>> But most of the time people were just like farming or you know chatting.

>> and once in a while quite rare

um they would write down some philos philosophical work.

>> It's just that that's that's all we have.

That's we we don't have the chat histories you know from

but most of it would have been like

chat and uh farming, >> right?

>> You didn't farm, you to you're like going to stop

>> in a lot of what you

>> I mean, you know, when we read history, like

this battle and this battle and this battle, it seems like it's

history must have been non-stop war, but actually

uh most of the time it was not war. It was farming.

>> That was the main thing

or hunting and gathering, you know, that kind of thing.

>> You love history, no? >> Yeah.

German history, World War II, World War I. >> Yeah. World history. Yeah.

I mean, I I I generally try to listen to

as many or read as many history books and listen to as many history podcasts as possible.

>> Anything you'd like to recommend?

>> Well, there's this there's hardcore history, which is quite good by Dan Colin.

He's got >> I've read it.

I have heard it.

>> It's very he's got a great voice.

>> And and very compelling u narrator.

Um there's um the

uh the adventurers podcast.

Um >> there's the the the the books the story of civilization

by Durant which is a

long series of books very very deep.

Those books take a long time to get through.

Um there's quite there there's a lot um out there.

Um, I I sort of like if you want if you want something that's

sort of um a gentle bedtime podcast, I'd say the history of English is

quite a nice one because it starts off with like gentle tavern music

>> and uh very pleasant voice and he's like talking about the story of old

English and then middle English and then

later English and >> and where did all these words come from

>> and um you know one of the interesting things about English is that it's

somewhat of an open source language like it

actively tried to incorporate words from many other languages.

>> So um you know whereas French sort of generally they fought the inclusion of

words from other languages

>> but English uh actively sought to include words from other languages sort of kind

of like an open source language.

So it as a result it has a very large vocabulary.

Um and large vocabulary

allows for higher bandwidth communication.

Uh because you can use

a word that would otherw you could use a single word that might otherwise

take a sentence to convey.

>> Why has podcasting become so big all of a sudden?

>> I think it's been big for a while.

I mean aren't you a podcaster?

>> What are we on right now?

It's kind of new to me.

>> I was having this conversation

with u the YouTube CEO and the Netflix CEO

and we were debating

chemical is released in your brain when you consume

a movie for example

>> versus when you consume a podcast where you think like you're learning something in the background.

It it appears that they are two completely separate things.

What do you think will happen tomorrow

to content, movies, podcasting?

>> I mean, I think

I think it's going to be overwhelmingly AI generated. >> Like, yeah.

Real real time real time movies

and video games, real real time video generation, I think, is where things are headed.

the nuance of having a scarred human being

who you can resonate with in a manner that you can't with a AI for example.

>> The AI could certainly emulate a scarred human being quite well.

>> Um yeah, I mean

the AI video generation that I'm seeing

at XAI and from others is

pretty You know, we were looking at data around

what industry is growing the fastest

and especially when when we looked at the amount of time consuming

movies versus uh time spent on social media,

time spent on YouTube,

what seems to be growing really fast

are live events all over again.

going to a physical

>> actually I think I think live events

when when when digital media is