0:04 Hello and welcome TED members.
0:06 I'm Whitney Pennington Rogers.
0:08 I'm a curator here at TED
0:09 and I am thrilled to be here with you for today's live event.
0:13 As technology has become more embedded in our daily lives,
0:16 it's also quietly reshaping something deeply human.
0:20 How we connect, how we experience intimacy, and how we understand relationships.
0:25 From dating apps to AI companions,
0:27 the tools we use are influencing not just who we connect with,
0:31 but what we expect from connection itself.
0:33 To dig deeper into what this moment means, not just for sex and romance,
0:37 but for all of our relationships.
0:39 Someone who has been at the forefront of these conversations,
0:42 sex tech expert Brian E.
0:44 Cole.
0:44 Hello, Brian.
0:46 >> Hello.
0:47 Thanks for having me.
0:48 Yeah, thank you so much for being here with us to speak to sort
0:51 of this realistic part of of of what the moment we're living in.
0:55 You know, I think when people hear the terms sex tech or AI relationships,
1:00 there is this this sense
1:02 that this is futuristic
1:03 or maybe something that's very fringe
1:04 and you talk a lot about what the landscape looks like now
1:09 and what we're seeing.
1:10 Can you share some other technologies
1:12 that are out there at this moment
1:14 and and maybe some surprising ways people are using them in their everyday lives?
1:18 >> Oh yeah.
1:19 I mean I I think
1:21 that I think the it's almost like the technology isn't surprising me anymore.
1:26 It's us, right?
1:27 So in the last last year in 2025,
1:29 there were over 300 AI companion apps just developed and released on the market.
1:35 And I actually don't find the features that interesting anymore.
1:39 Um certainly in the future we'll see
1:41 that they will be able to track our eye movements
1:44 and you know they already track tone of voice those sorts of things.
1:48 It's actually just the amount
1:50 that are in the market
1:51 and who is using them
1:53 and how we're using them.
1:55 So as I said before you know you can't you can't go too far
1:57 without realizing oh my goodness this is actually not just the cliche guy in
2:02 the garage.
2:03 This is everyone.
2:04 It's definitely young people are using it more and more,
2:08 but also older people for support that are feeling lonely,
2:11 people that understand technology
2:13 as well as people
2:14 that are a little less dextrous with it.
2:16 It's people that have using it for caregiving
2:18 or have lost a loved one
2:21 or in long-distance relationships
2:23 or neurode divergent users
2:25 or people that are navigating grief illness. you know,
2:28 there's all these different reasons now why people are turning to AI for companionship.
2:34 And I think, you know,
2:35 I was at a 40th um a couple of weeks ago
2:38 and it became very obvious
2:40 that we're all using AI for these emotional moments
2:44 as well in front of people.
2:46 So, not just for that companionship, but for writing a 40th speech.
2:50 There's just there's just something you can tell
2:53 when you you go to like a a a moment that's meant to be
2:57 about you reflecting on your friend
2:59 and this is going to be my you think I think I think
3:02 that guy used AI to create
3:04 that talk or you know even I've heard anecdotes of people using it to
3:08 write eulogies.
3:10 Um these things in relationships
3:12 that were never meant to be efficient
3:14 that suddenly we're saying oh my gosh this is this is infiltrating my daytoday
3:19 relationships.
3:20 I think when I look on the frontier, which is, you know,
3:24 three years ago, that's what I was seeing was, okay,
3:26 we're all going to use this for companionship.
3:28 I think even in the last couple of months,
3:31 that idea has shifted even more.
3:34 And this is really a a peak into what's around the corner,
3:38 particularly if we don't be more careful,
3:40 and we can get into
3:41 that around the the guard rails
3:42 or the questions we'll we'll ask ourselves.
3:45 But I think what I'm seeing now
3:46 and we're seeing always a good signal is what are these sensational stories in
3:51 the media around this topic
3:53 and it's about people deciding uh to have families with AI.
3:59 >> And so it's not just about your AI girlfriend
4:02 or boyfriend or your falling in love
4:04 or you're dating an AI for companionship.
4:07 It's now this extension of what was previously exclusively a human domain.
4:12 And there was a recent story about a young boy who's decided he wants
4:16 to,
4:17 you know, have this AI wife
4:18 and they want to adopt a human child in the future
4:22 and raise um an AI family.
4:25 Now, I think that's going to be uh pretty difficult legally to do,
4:31 but we're we're seeing those ideas.
4:33 People are going, I could raise a family.
4:35 And then, you know, as I said in the talk, this isn't just about,
4:39 you know, the lonely men. you know
4:42 that are that have decided to use this for companionship
4:46 or for this idea of raising a family.
4:48 We also have a gender split where women are also using this
4:53 and in that sort of future facing context women
4:56 that are facing fertility issues
4:58 and can't actually have children are thinking
5:01 or talking about what would it mean to raise an AI family.
5:06 So if I can't have a child biologically,
5:09 what would it mean to have AI children and simulating that?
5:13 So I think that's where um I'm more and more surprised about how people,
5:19 you know, the the technology is already here.
5:22 Um we're not putting that back in the box,
5:24 but how people are deciding to use it.
5:26 And quite often that then dictates the next innovation or features we're seeing.
5:34 I mean, there's there's
5:35 so much there and it's incredible to see
5:37 that that there aren't really these patterns of it's always this person doing this
5:41 thing that it really does seem like it's ranging the gamut.
5:44 And and when you think about adoption,
5:46 are you are you seeing
5:47 that there are certain misconceptions for people who maybe are slow to to pick
5:50 this up or are have some hesitation
5:53 or uh you know questions around the usage of of AI in this way
6:00 and companionship?
6:01 What are some of the I guess the common misconceptions you're seeing coming from
6:05 that segment of the population >> um
6:08 that are resistant to using AI for for emotional needs.
6:13 >> That's right.
6:16 >> Um I'm thinking of my dad right now who just turned 80 who
6:20 you know who will ring me up
6:22 and be like Bri can you use chat JPT for this thing for me
6:25 on my behalf.
6:26 Um but I think uh I actually think it's more
6:30 that there's a resistance more there around well how do I use it
6:33 but it's becoming so easy to use
6:36 that um you know
6:37 that adoption curve is
6:39 so much quicker than
6:41 if we say 1015 years ago
6:42 when social media first came out
6:44 and people didn't really what's a status update how do I use this social
6:48 network and I was getting those same calls from my parents.
6:51 I think if you're you're a critical thinker
6:55 and you you're already over the adoption curve
6:57 and you've started using it
6:58 and seeing oh this is actually um providing a lot of um support almost
7:03 frictionless um in terms of how how I can talk to AI the the
7:11 um the resistance the skepticism there is more about oh this feels a bit
7:15 extractive what is going to happen here
7:16 and I saw some questions in the chat there about you know what happens
7:21 when suddenly uh diarrhea most innermost thoughts are now landing on a tech platform
7:29 and what sort of what does
7:30 that mean for me
7:31 so I think there's first a question where people are sort of thinking about
7:35 this in terms of where's my data going
7:37 which we already saw with things like Facebook
7:40 or you know when people are using phones
7:41 and downloading apps there was
7:43 that oh I' got you know I've got to read the terms
7:45 and conditions and and very quickly
7:47 as a society we kind of have gotten over
7:50 that a lot of us
7:52 and going oh yeah just press agree
7:54 but there's that initial resistance there
7:57 and then I think the the second thing we think about
8:00 when we're using this we go I don't know
8:01 if this actually feels good is
8:04 because you're recognizing the dependency
8:07 that you have on the platform
8:08 because it feels really good what what's the actual sacrifice what is the cost
8:15 here if I go
8:17 and use AI for my therapy needs needs rather than um talking to a
8:22 therapist.
8:22 If I use it for a difficult situation at work or friendship,
8:26 how is that going to weaken the bonds?
8:27 And I think that's what we're thinking about.
8:29 Oh, is this actually supportive or is is this extractive?
8:34 And I think the next step I'd like people to take is, you know,
8:38 thinking about, well, how could it be useful to me?
8:41 Is it, you know,
8:42 a tool to practice vulnerability
8:45 or articulating my needs
8:46 or building some sort of emotional literacy?
8:49 And where does that line exist for me where I can sort of hold
8:53 back?
8:54 Um, does that make sense?
8:57 >> Perfect sense.
8:58 And and it sounds like in the argument of whether
9:01 or not synthetic intimacy
9:03 as you you call it in the talk uh becomes something
9:06 that replaces human intimacy
9:08 or is a thing
9:10 that you know we use to support it is a personal decision
9:14 that that you don't think
9:15 that it should be either
9:16 or that it's it seems like they can work together in one way
9:20 or another.
9:21 >> That's the hope, right?
9:22 But I think that's the hope
9:23 because I think we're looking towards a future where it is very hybrid
9:28 and there are going to be people
9:30 that will you know use AI inside their relationships
9:34 and there will be people
9:34 that will say you know I don't want to do
9:36 that because I can already see
9:38 that I want to keep this relationship just for me
9:41 and I want to use my my own humanity to decide about this person
9:45 rather than using AI
9:47 or to settle an argument with my partner.
9:49 I do think it's a personal choice just like it's you know I keep
9:54 coming back to social media
9:55 but you can't deny it it feels very similar
9:58 and we're seeing those warning signs of you know social media addiction now we're
10:03 seeing with AI companionship addiction I think it's going to come back to our
10:08 own personal frameworks we build of like how do I want to use this
10:13 how much time do I want to spend on this
10:15 because quite I mean obviously the tech companies are built are building this for
10:20 engagement and we see,
10:22 you know, now Instagram might have like popups where you've spent this much time
10:27 on Instagram.
10:28 Now's the time to jump off.
10:30 AI companionship apps are already doing that as well.
10:32 So they're already putting in I guess safeguards you could call them.
10:36 But ultimately it's it's on us
10:39 as as humans to decide at what point do I feel this is you
10:44 know something I want to use every day
10:46 or once a week
10:47 and and create those rules
10:48 and those boundaries for ourselves.
10:50 And that's that's really important to start thinking about that.
10:53 And I think the easiest way to think about
10:55 that is how do I use social media
10:57 and how do I feel about
10:58 that?
10:59 How am I going to use AI?
11:01 How do I feel about using AI?
11:05 >> And you give us some great questions towards the end of your talk
11:08 that can help us decide these things for ourselves
11:11 which are which is really helpful.
11:12 And you started to talk a little bit um about how this sort of
11:16 expands beyond romantic relationships
11:18 that this is just opening the door for helping us to understand what AI
11:23 could mean for relationships beyond this
11:25 and how it challenges our assumptions about friendship
11:28 or you know other relationships.
11:31 What do you think are are some of the ways
11:33 that this is upending the way we think about connection more broadly
11:37 and not just from a lens of romance?
11:40 Yeah, I think I mean in every facet,
11:45 every relationship in our life I think is going to be impacted by this
11:50 because people are using AI
11:53 as a tool to either support
11:55 or sometimes replace this.
11:57 So yes, um certainly in dating
12:01 and in relationships with our intimate lives also with we talked about raising children
12:08 and families and talking to our you know parenting is a really good example
12:13 where I talk to people
12:13 and oh yeah I didn't know
12:15 if I should change the nappy at this time
12:17 so I asked chat GPT.
12:18 So, we're outsourcing all those little moments.
12:20 And if you think about from
12:22 when you wake up to you put your pillow on the head at night,
12:25 how many different people you're talking to,
12:27 I think the biggest place we're not looking right now,
12:30 which is kind of funny because we use this so much at work anyway,
12:35 is um yeah, is at work and with our colleagues.
12:38 And I think those relationships at work, especially because, you know,
12:42 we've moved towards this remote work, working from home situation.
12:47 How do we build teams
12:49 when we're outsourcing a lot of those difficult conversations
12:53 or those um emotional moments to an AI?
12:57 Because at work, we're still it's still about fostering healthy relationships with your colleagues
13:02 and with team dynamics.
13:04 And what happens when Sally decides
13:08 that she doesn't like some of my work
13:09 and she doesn't want to give the the honest feedback
13:13 and instead puts that into an AI companion
13:16 and deals with that
13:17 or deals with her burnout
13:19 as stress from work.
13:21 Um I think we're not clocking
13:22 that that is actually going to have a huge impact on organizations.
13:28 And then if you look at the the the leaders in organizations,
13:32 how are they how are they using their voice and their own?
13:35 I always struggle to to use authenticity because I think it just gets overused.
13:40 But if we're talking about organizations leading the future
13:43 and those leaders are using AI to do all those the visionary work
13:49 and have the voice
13:50 and have that true authentic voice
13:52 and they're outsourcing that um to the AI.
13:55 I think we're starting to lose a lot of the stuff
13:58 that that makes companies
14:00 and building amazing products
14:01 and services great is just like the humanity
14:03 and our ideas.
14:05 It's not just and this sounds very contrary to any, you know,
14:09 business um best practice.
14:12 It's not just about efficiency when we're at work.
14:14 It is about, you know, what makes us a great team together.
14:19 And what makes visions truly visionary is they come from somewhere inside.
14:24 And I think from the heart, you know, from from our creativity, our imagination,
14:28 sense of intuition, these things that are distinctly human qualities.
14:35 >> I mean, and
14:35 and you get into this um a little bit in the talk
14:39 and we we have
14:40 so many questions that are coming in from our members
14:42 and I'll start to bring some of those in now.
14:44 In fact, there's a good one from Sheila um which feels connected to this.
14:49 You know, she mentions
14:50 that if 70% of Gen Z are going to have committed relationships with AI
14:54 chatbots,
14:54 how can we rebuild the modern village,
14:57 which I think also connects to what you're suggesting around other spaces too,
15:01 other places of community, workplaces and you know,
15:06 general governments and that sort of thing.
15:08 How do how do we rebuild
15:09 that if if AI becomes such a presence in life?
15:12 >> Yeah, what a beautiful question, Sheila.
15:15 I love this idea of rebuilding the village.
15:17 And I think um when we talk about rebuilding,
15:21 we're not talking about going backwards.
15:24 There's no going back to the village.
15:28 So, we have to update what we what we really think a village could
15:33 be now that we have this presence in our lives.
15:36 And I think it's um you know what's historically
15:41 so beautiful about villages is they just sort of existed.
15:44 It was about proximity.
15:45 We were in the same place
15:47 and space and there was this level of shared care there.
15:51 I think today rebuilding a village,
15:54 a village isn't like a place
15:56 that we just um happen upon
15:59 that we find because we're there.
16:01 It's actually a practice.
16:02 A village is something we practice.
16:04 And what makes a village is frequency of interaction.
16:09 So that consistency of whether it's I don't know the school pickup
16:14 or the same barista,
16:16 those sorts of things
16:16 that that's so important
16:18 that we have that frequency of interaction.
16:21 It's not just a one-off event
16:23 that we're going to to meet new people.
16:26 I think the other thing is, you know,
16:29 this is such a great um sort of quote by Esther Pel comes to
16:34 mind about villages of like we expect from one person today what we used
16:40 to receive from a village
16:41 and she's talking about all these different relationships in our lives
16:45 that we can depend on not just this one person
16:48 and now I think the update is instead of we expect from a village
16:52 you know we expect this AI to be
16:54 that we actually have to look at our ecosystem of our relationships
16:58 and be really intentional about
17:00 that,
17:00 right?
17:00 This is some this is a village
17:02 as a practice and
17:04 so in that we want to we want to take like the non-romantic relationships
17:09 in our life and
17:10 and prioritize them as well.
17:12 So whether that's friendships
17:14 that are within proximity
17:15 or you know scheduling calls with friends
17:17 that are long distance
17:19 or having that practice of who are the other non-romantic relationships in our life
17:25 that can also provide a village
17:27 and being really thoughtful about
17:29 that.
17:29 I think that's that's something
17:31 that yeah we we sort of fell off the deep end
17:33 when we thought just our lover is going to do everything
17:36 and now we think oh our AI companion lover is going to be this
17:40 village.
17:40 I think the other thing to think about without you know I always try
17:43 to sort of tread the cross the bridge really from like okay AI is
17:48 not terrible but it's it can I mean it's it can be scary
17:52 but it's also got these opportunities is okay well what is the opportunity here
17:56 with rebuilding a village
17:58 and with technology how can we use the technology
18:02 as the connective tissue whether
18:04 that you know is scheduling the facetime I want to say some some benefits
18:08 of using a AI companion to schedule in these friendships
18:12 or find new fun novel interesting ways to have shared experiences with our village
18:19 is also really useful.
18:20 So thinking about yeah those frequencies of interaction those
18:23 that ecosystem of all our other relationships in our life
18:27 that are human and
18:28 and um making sure they're frequent
18:30 and then figuring out well how does how does AI companions fit in this
18:35 and is it the is it
18:36 as a scheduling tool is it what is the what is the way I'm
18:40 going to use AI in a productive way >> to make my village >>
18:46 I I love that
18:47 and I love you you sort of drawing this picture of you know,
18:50 having the village that we rely on people,
18:53 different people for different things
18:54 and then that sort of narrows to this space of one person for everything.
18:58 And now we're in this moment where we can broaden it back out.
19:01 Um, and in a lot of ways it sounds like really customize what your
19:05 village looks like using AI to support
19:07 that like what you can get from certain people.
19:10 And I I wonder in doing
19:12 that are are there certain things
19:13 that you think you lose uh in in those connections
19:17 when you are customizing things in a way
19:21 that really suits you?
19:22 Is is there some element of not having control over
19:25 that that is really meaningful?
19:29 Oh, I I mean I do think that like spontaneity and things, you know,
19:32 the the the tough stuff is actually what builds great relationships.
19:38 I think the the you know, we more and more want customization.
19:42 That's just that's just sort of what we've been designing for.
19:46 But for me, just off the top of my head, I think yeah,
19:48 those that other than like the things this the things
19:51 that happen that are unintended consequences of our friendship of being out in the
19:56 world of,
19:57 I don't know, your dog running off
19:58 and doing a poop on the neighbor's lawn
20:00 or something like they're really important ways
20:03 that we build our humanity
20:04 and we slip up
20:06 and we strengthen the bonds.
20:08 Um, but I think in terms of using a tool like AI for personalization,
20:13 for figuring out, hey,
20:14 I really love doing this practice with yoga and so does this friend.
20:19 Let's schedule that in
20:20 or let's use this to to find out the best teacher.
20:23 I'm Yeah, I mean that feels really good.
20:27 And and Muriel asked a question connected to this as well.
20:30 They mentioned that there's a French idiom
20:32 that it's better to live alone than in bad company.
20:34 Uh, and AI makes them wonder the opposite.
20:37 Is it better to have a relationship with an AI than being alone with
20:40 a sense of isolation?
20:44 >> What's your feeling around that?
20:47 >> Well, I mean, when I hear the word alone,
20:49 and I think we talk about this so much today, right,
20:52 in the in our world is loneliness.
20:56 And I think about how loneliness isn't really about being alone.
21:03 It's about disconnection.
21:05 And so I think the the question there is about connection
21:09 and what makes a rich connection um
21:13 and while an AI companion can provide a connection in terms of richness
21:19 and depth you know it can't it can't witness us in the way
21:25 that humans can but it can provide perhaps a different way you know an
21:29 AI can recognize when you know
21:31 if it's got the the visual compatibility with It can recognize
21:35 when you're about to tear up
21:36 or it can hear the tone in your voice
21:37 when you're anxious.
21:38 And that is a form of connection of being able to mirror and respond,
21:43 but it can't wipe away your tears or it can't, you know,
21:48 offer you um a genuine forgiveness in a way that I think deepens connection.
21:54 Do I think it's better than um total disconnection?
21:59 actually do.
22:00 I think that it it's you know we have seen these cases in the
22:04 research that find that it has actually helped people through difficult times.
22:09 Now that doesn't necessarily have to be for years or in a relationship.
22:13 It might be someone navigating menopause
22:15 or navigating the loss of a loved one
22:18 or these really hard moments where I think in today's world humans are burnt
22:24 out and sometimes we are burnt out on relationships
22:27 and showing up for each other
22:29 and even though I talk about it being the magic I think
22:32 if there's an ability for um you know you to have a connection
22:35 and go through a hard time
22:37 and have that companion provide some level of
22:40 that I do think that's worth something.
22:43 And I think for the people on the other side
22:45 that are trying to support you,
22:47 if it allows them to show up more fully
22:50 and show up for you
22:51 as well,
22:53 I think that's that's a useful um use of having a connection with AI.
23:00 Maybe not a deep reciprocal one, >> but um certainly a reflected one.
23:09 Well, all of this raises a lot of questions around safety, security,
23:14 and you tal touched on some of this already.
23:17 Um, but even bigger questions around morals
23:20 and what what's acceptable
23:21 when we're thinking about approaching AI relationships,
23:25 what do you think are some of the ethical questions we should be asking
23:29 right now at this moment before these tools become even more embedded into our
23:33 lives?
23:36 It's you know who's designing them who is behind this
23:40 and remembering this is a business model you know I think we already are
23:44 in the practice of telling our most deepest darkest thoughts to you know it
23:50 started I guess with with journaling right
23:52 and and writing them down
23:53 or with people that we barely know with strangers we already do this um
23:58 and certainly then we saw with the internet
24:01 and for we're in the practice of this
24:03 but I think we this this moment in time will either decide well are
24:08 we going to demand more of these companies
24:11 or are we going to think about how we're going to share those thoughts
24:14 because I think that's a really important question around data
24:18 and privacy that we've been asking technology companies for for a very long time
24:24 and I wonder and hope
24:25 that this is the moment
24:26 that we wake up
24:27 and ask well where is
24:29 that going because that is the the most vulnerable thoughts
24:33 that that we told
24:34 and they're with a company even
24:36 if it feels like a human.
24:37 They're they're part of the business model.
24:39 And so I think that's really important.
24:41 I think consent is is embedded in
24:44 that and important to ask
24:45 and who are the people
24:46 that are designing these
24:47 and that are writing these LLMs.
24:49 And we need for a future to involve well really to involve everyone
24:55 but to involve so many different points of view
24:59 and you know minority groups,
25:01 caregivers, psychologists.
25:03 This can't just be people with technical skills.
25:06 Needs to be people
25:06 that have deep understanding of the human experience
25:09 and of empathy and of psychology to really understand how how do we navigate
25:15 this in an ethical way
25:17 and you know for the most part it is the wild west.
25:20 It reminds me very much of my earlier career in sex tech where it
25:24 kind there aren't there are very few guard rails
25:27 and people are scrambling,
25:28 governments, institutions are scrambling to catch up and to legislate around this.
25:33 But in the interim,
25:34 I think the the gate needs to be with ourselves of how we're going
25:39 to use use these tools
25:41 and how do we invite more people in with more diverse experiences um into
25:48 these companies to to look at them
25:50 and to to build with them
25:51 because there's no no not building them.
25:54 They're happening.
25:56 H I mean I think in in thinking about these conversations around how AI
26:00 can you know sort of having these conversations around safety
26:03 and and for users of this it definitely brings up questions around >> children
26:09 or people who are even young adults who are not used to navigating some
26:13 of these complex spaces.
26:15 Um and we have an interesting question from Jennifer M around whether there's a
26:20 way to harness AI for sex education for young people who are uncomfortable speaking
26:24 to adults.
26:25 How do you how do you think about it that use for it?
26:28 >> Yeah, I mean there's a company at the moment, Mojo,
26:30 that are doing this for sex therapy.
26:32 And I think I think it is I think there are great uses of
26:36 and we've seen this previously with technology
26:39 and tools to allow people to understand topics
26:42 that are taboo,
26:43 that are off limits, that feel like, oh my gosh, am I normal?
26:48 um and be able to ask someone about that in someone being, you know,
26:53 in this case AI um in a way that feels safe.
26:56 And so, yes, there there's a great opportunity for that.
27:00 And we're already seeing that that exists.
27:03 And I think it's um it's really helpful for for things like sexual health
27:07 and STI and understanding those things
27:10 that especially children feel a little bit embarrassed to ask.
27:13 I do think it should be a supplement though.
27:16 I think part of sex education,
27:19 so much of the the curriculum that's missing is actually about the things
27:24 that make us human.
27:25 It's the listening, it's the communication, it's the showing up,
27:28 it's the having the difficult conversations, it's asking if you got that STI test.
27:33 And so that critical skill of being able to communicate with a partner,
27:38 I think it's still there still needs to be that human element.
27:42 And that's why sex educators
27:44 and sexologists are so fantastic
27:47 because the way they talk about these things to young kids
27:50 and deliver it is in a way
27:53 that gives people permission.
27:55 And I actually think we're going to need more of that skill,
27:58 not just around sex and intimacy, but around relationships.
28:03 I see that with with kids now.
28:05 And we joke about the Gen Z stare, right?
28:08 and people not being able to read social cues
28:11 or have that body language that's only exacerbated by using AI
28:18 and and not having those cues of learning body language
28:21 and physical touch and
28:23 and having those um difficult conversations.
28:26 So I would say yes
28:28 and hybrid model absolutely it's an incredible tool just like the internet has been
28:33 for developing our knowledge
28:36 but it also needs to be paired with the things
28:40 that keep us distinctly human
28:43 and in relationship >> well in thinking about sort of ensuring
28:50 that companies are really thoughtful about security
28:53 and safety in developing these products.
28:56 Uh Ashley M asks,
28:56 "How do how do we get AI companies to train their LLMs on on
29:00 consent principles?"
29:01 You know, what what what's the incentive for them to do that?
29:06 >> Pressure from public pressure, you know, and again,
29:09 I think we just look back to what's worked and what's hasn't.
29:14 And there's plenty that hasn't still with social media.
29:17 Um but you know I think organizations like the Center for Humane Technology are
29:22 doing an incredible job
29:23 and that activism is you know the pressure point is the only sort of
29:28 lever that we can pull on
29:30 as everyday people who aren't in the companies
29:33 and aren't driven by the bottom line to demand
29:36 that and to ask for
29:37 that.
29:38 And you know, sometimes
29:39 that means using using your own um the way you use it
29:44 or not use AI to to send
29:46 that message.
29:47 But I think that's that's sort of what I look to
29:51 and and try to be a voice for is it's asking for
29:54 that.
29:56 There's there are so many questions in here
29:57 and we won't get to all of them
29:58 that are connected to this idea of safety
30:00 and security and and I think
30:02 that this just speaks to what you're suggesting like in thinking about these conversations
30:06 around social social media
30:07 and people really having real concerns around privacy.
30:11 Um, I'll po pose one to you
30:13 though here that I think uh is useful for us to to to think
30:17 about is is Peter O asks
30:18 if uh if you're worried about our most intimate thoughts being recorded
30:22 and used by our AI friend provider,
30:24 you know, into the future forever.
30:26 What where where does your um where does your thinking fall in
30:30 that space right now?
30:32 Um it it does I mean yes I am worried
30:38 and I also look at our usage of you know things like like everything
30:46 that we do already with the apps
30:48 and things and I think people are going to do this people are going
30:52 to use these tools
30:54 and you know have this experience where AI will have access like with friend
30:58 to their deeper thoughts.
31:00 In fact, it won't really be an AI companion in many ways.
31:04 It will be an AI extension of ourselves, right?
31:07 That can almost hear our thoughts
31:09 and whisper in our ear
31:10 as we're walking down a busy street.
31:12 And then, you know,
31:14 there's there's not even a need to pick up a screen
31:17 and to text that AI.
31:20 It's actually happening with, you know, a little chip here.
31:22 I think that you know
31:23 or the friend which
31:25 if you haven't seen
31:26 that is sort of a necklace
31:27 that lives around your neck
31:28 and takes in your whole world
31:31 and so this is I would say to Peter this is already happening people
31:35 are already using this I think in the future where we're going to be
31:39 having these conversations not
31:40 as I've fallen in love with my AI
31:43 but actually AI is an extension of me some people are going to think
31:48 that's utopia >> a lot of us are going to think that's dystopian
31:52 and choose not to use it.
31:54 And I think the reality is the throughtopia is it's going to land somewhere
31:59 in the middle where yes,
32:01 there will be a lot of, you know,
32:04 movement before we get to that place.
32:06 But I think there will be people that think that that's amazing.
32:09 But the throughper is there's probably going to be some good
32:11 and there's going to be some terrible stuff
32:13 that will happen and this will be the new normal.
32:17 And so the most important thing we can we can do right now is
32:21 remember that intimacy and our innermost thoughts
32:24 and sharing those that is a skill
32:26 that we and a system
32:28 that we need to develop for ourselves before we start outsourcing it to technology
32:34 and making it automatic.
32:35 It is something that we practice
32:37 and learn how to do
32:38 and get comfortable with ourselves before we do it with others.
32:42 And how comfortable are we with a world in which yeah everything is automatic.
32:48 Does everything is efficient including our thoughts
32:51 and our needs and
32:52 and do we want to live in
32:54 that world and it'll be a personal decision.
32:58 >> Well speaking to scared everyone yet everyone's like oh my goodness.
33:02 But but also you know I think
33:04 that there are a lot of opportunities here it's it
33:06 which you highlight throughout this conversation
33:09 and in the talk um
33:11 and and I mean thinking about the future
33:12 if you think just even five 10 years from now there's
33:16 so many things that you've highlighted
33:17 that are distinctly human traits
33:20 and I think that there are a lot of people who are designing these
33:23 technologies who hope to find ways to have AI take on these traits
33:28 that feel distinctly human.
33:30 So, so if if we get this right and you know as a society,
33:33 what do you think technology could make possible in terms of deeper connections
33:37 or emotional well-being with AI?
33:41 Yeah, I think I think we're already seeing the the positives there
33:44 and and that you know it is you know the the step in between
33:50 using a therapist.
33:51 So the mental health care
33:53 or the grieving process
33:55 or you know going through those uncomfortable situations where we do we can't call
34:00 a friend or we do you know keep looping on the same thought like
34:05 today we see a lot of people using a lot a lot a lot
34:08 using um AI companions through breakups
34:12 and that you know instead of going to your friend
34:15 and talking adnauseium about
34:17 that breakup there is a step in between
34:19 and so I think um there is this moment where we go,
34:23 okay, it's not a replacement,
34:25 but how can we use this for positives in our lives
34:29 that that provide um a bit of reprieve?
34:33 Um they're they're sort of the the elements
34:37 that I'm hopeful of
34:39 while still retaining >> our humanity,
34:43 you know.
34:43 But I think the the point I keep coming back to is just intimacy
34:48 relationships,
34:50 they're not efficient.
34:51 >> We shouldn't want them to be efficient.
34:55 >> And so how do we
34:57 if we just like take the technology off the table for a second?
35:02 I think a big trend in the future is going to be inefficiency.
35:08 It's it's a luxury already,
35:09 but what does it look like to have slow relationships?
35:14 What does it look like to build in a way
35:17 that feels a little bit uncomfortable
35:21 and a like slowing everything down?
35:24 And I think that's sort of where I'm hopeful in the future is
35:27 that we can we can take a bit of
35:30 that and that actually feels good.
35:32 That feels different.
35:34 And for younger generations, when I talk to them,
35:38 that's a foreign concept because everything's on demand.
35:41 And so, how do we how do we learn
35:43 when to take technology off the table?
35:44 And oh, what is it like?
35:46 What does it feel like to go slow?
35:48 Because that's like the best best other things about human relationships when it's,
35:53 you know, feeling a little bit slow.
35:56 And then in those moments where we need relief, emotional relief,
36:02 we can we can use companions
36:05 and with the hope
36:06 that it makes us better in relationships.
36:08 It makes us better humans.
36:10 That's the optimistic view that we always see with companies.
36:13 Oh, you know, you you download this and you'll learn how to date better.
36:18 >> But the onus will always be back to you.
36:21 Am I using this to practice a conversation?
36:23 Am I using this to just completely make it efficient and outsource it?
36:29 Well, it it sounds like an answer to um this question from Brian L
36:32 about how humans can uh can humans ever be
36:35 as compelling or desirable
36:37 as the best AI will become.
36:39 Um and you know,
36:41 it sounds like the answer is that that's not the goal, right?
36:43 For us to be as the same as AI but to contribute something different.
36:46 And so I I mean I wonder feel like from the place of how
36:50 we keep up is is there something we should be trying to do to
36:55 keep up here?
36:57 Yeah, I think um you know the these these like the AI relationship
37:06 and the human relationship really speaks to two different sides of our hearts
37:13 and we keep we keep sort of
37:16 and which is so normal right now is we keep fusing them together
37:21 and thinking about replacement
37:24 and you know it does do a lot of a lot of the the
37:28 the the ideas of relationship
37:30 that we thought and intimacy
37:32 that we we previously have had from humans.
37:34 But I think we need to remember
37:36 that this is a different form of connection
37:38 and this is um something
37:40 that will be a different
37:42 if we call it a relationship
37:44 or connection different.
37:45 It's distinct.
37:46 It offers us different um benefits than being with a human, you know,
37:52 and it can provide support.
37:54 But I think when I think about yeah, real relationships, this idea, you know,
38:00 we talk about friction, uncomfortable, like a part of all of that,
38:03 the the the stuff that feels uncomfortable in the moment.
38:08 It's the relationship is about a two-way transformation.
38:12 And really, you can never have a two-way transformation with an AI companion.
38:17 So, just really understanding how how we can start to in our minds conceive
38:23 of these things as really two distinct relationships
38:27 that will dominate the future,
38:30 but seeing it as an entirely new category.
38:33 And I think that helps also for young people
38:35 and for when we think about education around these around relationships,
38:39 right?
38:40 I think there should be education
38:42 and curriculums in school
38:44 that are about what does it look like to have a healthy relationship with
38:48 AI just like what does it look like to have a healthy relationship
38:51 and sex education and all those things.
38:53 I think this is where we need to start educating people on this is
38:59 actually an a new column we've created of relationship
39:04 and I think that's a really important way to prepare for the future.
39:09 But what do you think are some practices
39:11 that can help keep us grounded um in our own humanity in this moment
39:16 but at any point uh in time?
39:20 >> Yeah, I love that question.
39:21 I think um I think it is when we Okay,
39:25 so when you're using the technology,
39:26 I do think it is asking is this bringing me closer to people in
39:31 my life or is this actually isolating me further?
39:34 Um, I think, you know, in relationships,
39:38 I think there is a lost art that's happening at the moment of curiosity
39:44 and of listening,
39:44 of being a good listener
39:46 because we're used to this world where everything is now on demand
39:50 and,
39:51 you know, efficient.
39:52 I think um, if you were on on Valentine's Day, if you're with someone,
39:59 um, you know, yes, use use AI to plan the date if you want.
40:03 Um, I think a good conversation to have with your partner is how do
40:09 you use AI?
40:10 Do you have an AI companion?
40:11 And to talk through how that feels.
40:13 I think that's going to be a negotiation
40:14 that we're going to have with every single relationship is is it cheating?
40:19 How are you using it?
40:20 How am I using it?
40:21 What gender have you got?
40:22 What voice?
40:22 I think that's a really interesting discussion.
40:24 Maybe not sexy enough for Valentine's Day,
40:27 but I think it you put it on the agenda of something
40:30 and then you know on
40:32 and really this idea of curiosity
40:34 and listening.
40:36 It's about presence and we talk about it
40:39 so much but I think that's the thing
40:43 that feels sometimes hard to do.
40:46 We've all got attention spans of goldfish.
40:49 But how do we how do we stay present with that person?
40:54 How do we read their their social, their facial expressions, their cues?
40:58 Yes, technology will be better at doing it in the future,
41:01 but I don't want to lose that skill.
41:03 >> And how do I really feel into someone's energy?
41:07 Because that's a human skill.
41:09 That's something that we can do really well
41:11 if we tap into it beyond conversation.
41:15 There's a universal language there, energy, being in the room with someone,
41:20 how that feels, how how do I feel?
41:22 And so checking in with yourself, checking in with your partner.
41:26 >> Doesn't have to be rocket science.
41:29 Doesn't have to be this therapized, you know, version of questions, 20 questions,
41:36 but just being present.
41:40 >> It's important.
41:42 >> Well, in this last minute um that we have,
41:44 I I know that something really exciting came um out of the talk for
41:47 you.
41:47 So, could you tell us a little bit about what's next?
41:50 >> Yeah, great.
41:51 Well, I continue to go down this rabbit hole
41:55 and to to still talk to people
41:58 that are at the frontiers
41:59 and try and make sense of how do we do this?
42:01 A lot of this conversation
42:02 and a lot of the questions
42:03 that we're getting at the moment is sensemaking
42:05 because we don't have
42:07 that guide,
42:08 right?
42:08 We don't have this way to navigate the world.
42:10 And so, we're all trying to look to someone to have the answers.
42:15 Tell me it's bad.
42:16 Tell me I need to do this.
42:17 Tell me I need to use it for five minutes.
42:18 And so out of the TED talk
42:20 and you know I shared those questions
42:22 which are really just like the beginnings of a blueprint has become a book
42:27 and talking about this guide
42:30 which I call the intimacy operating system
42:33 because it is a system now
42:34 that we need to own for ourselves.
42:37 It's like what are these questions that we need to ask ourselves?
42:40 What are the questions we need to ask others
42:42 and provide people with a pathway through using this in the future
42:49 and what the future of intimacy looks like in every area of your life
42:53 whether that is dating,
42:54 falling in love, you know, getting married,
42:56 but also with friendships and with parenting and with your colleagues at work.
43:02 How do we navigate a world where there are these two distinct relationships
43:06 and what does that mean for me?
43:08 And so yeah, I'm really exciting to be writing a book on it
43:11 and looking at intimacy
43:13 as not something that we lose to technology
43:16 because there are plenty of benefits,
43:18 but something that we as humans can now actively design for.
43:26 >> Well, I'm very excited to to see
43:28 that and I I know
43:29 so many others on this on this call are we didn't get to all
43:32 of the questions.
43:33 Um, but you answered so many.
43:34 So, thank you so much, Brian,
43:35 for for sharing your insights here and for this conversation.
43:39 >> Thank you.
43:40 Thanks, Whitney.
