0:08 Hello, this is 6 Minute English from BBC Learning English. I'm Neil.
0:12 And I'm Pippa.
0:13 Are you good at saving money, Neil?
0:15 Or do you like to spend it?
0:17 Well, actually, a bit of both.
0:20 I like to spend money on nice things, but I also try to save, mainly because I've got children.
0:27 How about you?
0:28 Yeah, I'm the same.
0:30 I like to save money, or I try to, for the future.
0:34 But I also do spend it.
0:36 I don't count every penny that I spend and save every single penny that I earn.
0:42 Mmm. Well, whether you're a saver or a spender, being in debt is common in the UK.
0:48 Debt refers to money a person has borrowed to buy something and which they have to pay back, usually to a bank, a credit card company, or another person.
0:58 Many people avoid talking about debt, but it affects us all.
1:03 In 2025, over 1,000 people contacted the UK Citizens Advice Bureau every single day of the year for help with their debt.
1:11 And when debt gets out of control, it causes stress and worry.
1:16 BBC Radio 4 programme Thinking Allowed interviewed one young man, Jason, about his debt.
1:22 Whatever jobs there are aren't enough to provide for a family.
1:25 Sometimes you need to take out loans.
1:26 I've done it a few times, but you can't ever pay it back.
1:29 You can't see a way out, other than winning the lottery or something.
1:32 I'd like to think I could clear them all one day, even if it means, like, five years paying them off.
1:37 Jason uses three phrases, pay back, pay off, and clear debt, all of which mean the same thing – to give back the money you've borrowed.
1:48 In this episode, we'll hear more about living with debt by learning some useful new words and phrases.
1:54 And remember, you'll find all the vocabulary used, plus a quiz and worksheet, on our website, bbclearningenglish.com.
2:02 But first, I have a question for you, Pippa.
2:05 According to debt support group The Money Charity, roughly how much is the average British adult in debt through credit cards, overdrafts and personal loans?
2:17 Is it: a) £2,200, b) £4,200, or c) £6,200?
2:26 Hmm. I'm not sure.
2:27 I'll say £2,200.
2:30 OK.
2:30 Well, we will find out the answer later in the programme.
2:34 Jason's story features in a new book by sociologist Ryan Davey.
2:38 Ryan spent months living in a low-income housing estate, which he gave the fictional name Woldham.
2:45 He talked with residents and listened to their money worries.
2:48 Here, Ryan explains more to BBC Radio 4's Thinking Allowed: My approach was to let people know that I was interested in learning about their lives and how they were making ends meet, so I did some interviews with residents, and I paid attention to where debt came up in everyday conversations.
3:05 For many people in Woldham, Jason included, debt was an ordinary feature of daily life.
3:11 And beyond that, being in arrears – so, being behind with one or more monthly payment commitments – was part of daily life.
3:18 The people of Woldham were making ends meet.
3:21 To make ends meet means having just enough money to pay for basic living expenses like food, bills and rent.
3:29 Ryan found that many residents were in arrears, a phrase meaning to still owe money that should have already been repaid.
3:37 For most residents, debt was a normal part of daily life.
3:41 With a regular income, debt can be managed, but for those who are unemployed or on low incomes, it can cause serious distress.
3:50 Here, Ryan discusses how the residents he met felt about their debt with BBC Radio 4's Thinking Allowed: Jason actually fluctuated between wanting to clear all of his debts on the one hand, and on the other what he described as living on the never-never, and actually questioning the supposed moral obligation to pay his debts.
4:12 Over the months that I knew him, the financial strain on him and his partner increased.
4:18 They missed some of their bills.
4:20 Their internet was disconnected.
4:22 Jason was living on the never-never, an informal phrase for buying the things you need by making regular small payments over a long time.
4:31 It's called the never-never because it seems the debt will never be repaid.
4:36 Jason experienced financial strain – emotional stress caused by a lack of money to meet his basic needs or to repay his debt.
4:45 Debt is a serious issue.
4:46 It affects many people and there are support groups who can help if you need it.
4:51 OK. Neil, what was the answer to your question?
4:54 I asked what the average amount of debt a British adult has through credit cards, overdrafts and personal loans.
5:02 I said it was around £2,200.
5:05 I'm afraid that's not the right answer.
5:08 In fact, it's £4,232. OK.
5:13 Let's recap the vocabulary we've learned, starting with debt – money a person has borrowed and needs to give back.
5:20 The phrases to pay back, to pay off, and to clear a debt all mean to give back money you have borrowed.
5:27 If someone is making ends meet, they have just enough money to pay for basic living expenses.
5:33 And if they are in arrears, they still owe money that should have been repaid already.
5:38 If you buy something on the never-never, you buy it by making small regular payments over a long period.
5:45 And finally, financial strain is emotional stress caused by a lack of money to meet your basic needs.
5:51 Once again, our six minutes are up, but if you'd like to know how debt is spelled and all the other words from this episode, visit our website, bbclearningenglish.com, to find a full vocabulary list.
6:04 See you again soon.
6:05 But for now, it's goodbye.
6:06 Bye!
