Joe Rogan Doesn't Understand Graphs

Well, it finally happened.

I watched an entire episode of the Joe Rogan Experience for a video I

made,

and now my YouTube algorithm is convinced I'd like another 1,000 Rogan clips,

please.

Oh, and can they have thaty Tik Tok backing track?

>> Christ was born of a virgin mother.

What else is born without a without a mother?

>> Wa.

>> AI.

AI is born without a mother.

>> Perfect.

I mostly ignored them,

but when Joe Rogan's episode with Mel Gibson came across my feed,

I just knew I had to see what Mel had been up to lately.

And folks, it did not disappoint.

>> You know, I look at all sorts of stuff like that, like you know,

the, you know, the icebergs melting and the water overflowing.

>> It's not ever having a glass full of ice and watch it melt.

Did you ever see the glass flow over?

>> No.

Takes up less room, you know?

>> Yeah.

>> Now, I was bummed to see Mel Gibson dusting off a tired old

climate denial talking point in front of an agreeing Joe Rogan,

but like who cares, right?

No one is going to Mel Gibson for their climate information.

This is not something that I need to get worked up about.

Except right after Mel got done with the whole ice cube thing,

Joe jumps in with something far more interesting.

>> Did you see the Washington Post uh article

that they published recently about uh temperature change on Earth?

>> No.

Well, there's a down like what they've realized is over the last, you know,

x amount of thousands of years that the temperature on Earth is plummeting.

Yeah, Joe is referencing a recent article from the Washington Post all about how

climate scientists think the Earth is actually in a cooling period.

He then pulls up the graph

and in front of 11 million YouTube viewers

and millions of other podcast listeners,

he describes what the article says about the Earth's temperature trend.

>> Scientists have captured the Earth's climate over the last 485 million years.

Here's a surprising place we stand now.

Look at the dip at the end.

>> Whoa.

>> That's where we are.

That's that's reality.

And here's the thing, Joe Rogan gets almost everything about this study wrong.

Yeah, it's almost impressive how incorrect he's able to be about an article

that he's looking directly at.

It's also an incredible example of how climate misinformation sneaks into extremely popular media

and then gets absorbed by the brains of millions of Americans.

Hi, I'm Raleigh Williams,

a guy with a climate science

and policy degree and a YouTube algorithm

that will never be the same again.

And this is a video about climate misinformation on Joe Rogan.

Welcome to Climate Town.

So, I honestly hadn't thought of Mel Gibson in a while.

So, if you need a reminder, the Gibson greatest hits album goes like this.

In the 80s and 90s, he was a pretty awesome movie star.

>> Give me back my son.

You want him?

Yes.

>> But in 2006, he got arrested for drunk driving

and said some anti-Semitic to the cop

that arrested him.

Then in 2010, some audio recordings of Gibson saying some racist surfaced.

He got dropped by his management.

And then he was in timeout for 6 years where he got sober,

said he was sorry, and then directed Hacksaw Ridge in 2016.

And now he's back.

Anyway, Mel Gibson had just directed the movie Flight Risk with Mark Wahlberg.

And he went on Joe Rogan's podcast to promote it

and generally just talk about whatever comes up.

And after about an hour and 15 minutes, we get this.

>> You know, the icebergs melting and the water overflowing.

>> It's not.

>> Ever have a glass full of ice and watch it melt?

Did you ever see the glass flow over?

>> No.

>> And I'm not going to waste your time redunking this climate myth.

A ton of people have already done that.

>> Here's a glass of ice water.

Hey, that ice isn't making the water overflow because it's already in the water.

But imagine there's a whole bunch of other ice that's not in the water.

It's on the land.

You know the part where the water isn't.

And then when temperatures rise and the land ice melts enough to fall, oh,

it's everywhere.

It's everywhere.

Do you understand?

>> But the Mel Gibson ice cube got your just got Joe Rogan all

fired up and he gives it to the climate crisis with both barrels.

>> The hot greenhouse, whatever.

I don't know.

>> Well, there's a lot of horseshit that's involved in climate change for sure.

I've studied that and I've had many discussions over the last four years.

Did you see the Washington Post uh article

that they published recently about uh temperature change on Earth?

>> No.

>> What they've realized is over the last, you know,

x amount of thousands of years that the temperature on Earth is plummeting.

I think there is.

Yeah.

>> Scientists have captured the Earth's climate over the last 485 million years.

Here's a surprising place we stand now.

Look at the dip at the end.

>> Wo.

>> That's where we are.

That's that's reality.

It's never a straight line.

Way before human beings had ever existed.

There's always this rise and fall.

And this idea that the whole thing is based on carbon emissions from human

beings is total >> It's not true.

We might be having an effect, but we're having a small effect,

a very small effect.

>> And the more I dug into what I thought was just a little

podcast moment,

the more interesting it became.

Just to get us on the same page,

let's quickly establish three things that modern climate science agrees on.

Number one, there is a set of greenhouse gases

that affect the temperature of the Earth based on their concentration.

One of the big ones is CO2.

And if there's more CO2 in the atmosphere,

the average temperature of Earth will be higher.

They're like blankets on a bed.

A few is fine, but too many and you're going to cook yourself.

We used to argue about the effect of CO2 a lot,

but as we've studied our climate more

and also seen what happens

as we jack our current CO2 concentration up,

there's not a lot of debate on this.

Number two, the current level of CO2 is going up.

Here's the graph.

Here's the trend.

It's going up.

And because of number one, that'll lead to higher global average temperatures.

And again, we don't have to guess.

It's already happening.

And number three, and this is the big one,

if the Earth's temperature changes very fast,

it could be devastating for anything that's adapted to living on Earth at

that particular moment in time.

Especially for humans who want to continue living in houses like this

and having hobbies like this.

We built most of our major cities near the current water supply.

We plant our crops where they grow.

And we've generally settled into expectations of some consistency in the earth around us.

So yes, people are worried about climate change.

>> And then there's also this fear

that they love to pump into people about climate change

that,

you know, they terrify the out of young people

that we're going to destroy the world.

And climate change, you must act now.

What's the new thing?

Is it climate change?

Why am I yelling climate change?

Okay, climate change.

When global warming happens, oh no, you got to move out of Malibu.

You're going to be okay.

>> But the thing people are worried about is the change part of climate change.

And it's not just the scale,

it's how fast the change happens. 10 degrees over 40 million years.

Who gives a I don't know what kind of people are going to be

around in the year 40 million 2025,

but they'll have a nice long time to evolve

and figure that out. 10° over 40 years,

buddy.

We're so I can't even bleep that word out.

So when we look at this graph,

people who talk about the climate crisis only really care about this part way

over here and not having this part look like this part.

This part is actually very informative.

When temperatures rose 10° C in 50,000 years,

there was a mass extinction

that killed almost everything

that was adapted to living on Earth at

that time.

Seems like something to avoid.

And if we were to plot the rate of climate change

that murdered 90% of all species on Earth,

it would look like this.

And if you've ever seen a Climate Town video before, you probably guessed it.

The rate of climate change we're currently experiencing is approximately here.

Yeah, it's like 50 times worse than one of the worst mass extinction events

that has ever happened to the planet.

And 50 times is probably underestimating our current rate of change.

But at this moment, you might be asking yourself, why should you trust me?

I mean, Joe Rogan's source is the Washington Post.

Plus, he's studied this stuff.

>> There's a lot of horseshit that's involved in climate change for sure.

I've studied that and I've had many discussions over the last four years.

>> I don't know exactly where or what he has studied about climate change,

but he's definitely been having a lot of discussions about it.

>> See, here's the thing. this climate change narrative.

This is a really goofy thing that people on the left are talking about.

This is because of climate change.

When there's global warming, you just move to where it's not so warm.

And that's what people have done forever.

The climate apocalypse narrative is a social contagion that's driven by power mad psychopaths

who are hellbent on using fear

and compulsion to make sure everyone steps in line

so that they can continue with their acquisition of undeserved power.

and I'm just some hack on YouTube.

I mean, technically I have a master's degree in this stuff,

but I'm still paying it off,

so it couldn't have been that good of an investment.

But I do have a secret weapon,

and it's actually the secret to this entire YouTube channel.

I read the article he pulled up.

That's right.

Below the headline and the graph at the top, there's an entire article.

And almost every counterpoint to Joe Rogan's argument is just stuff I read in

the article he's talking about.

So when Joe says >> this idea

that the whole thing is based on carbon emissions from human beings is total

>> Mhm.

It's not true.

>> That's in direct conflict with the article he's referencing

that says carbon dioxide is really

that master dial.

That's an important message in terms of understanding why emissions from fossil fuels are

a problem today.

And then when Joe says >> this is the most important thing for anybody

that's really freaked out about climate change,

there's no static temperature of Earth ever.

>> We can compare

that to this other quote from his new favorite article

that says we should be worried about human warming

because it's so fast.

We're changing Earth's temperature at a rate that exceeds anything we know about.

And just to be clear,

these are not random quotes from a reporter at the Washington Post.

These are from Dr.

Jessica Tierney, one of the authors of the study

that generated the graph we've been spending the last 10 minutes talking about.

No one is saying that the Earth's climate was stable until humans came along.

We've known for a long time

that the temperature of the Earth has changed over millions of years

and has even been much hotter than it is today.

And just one more for you.

Here's a quote from the lead author of that study, Dr.

Emily Jud.

Even though climate has been warmer, humans haven't lived in a warmer climate.

And there are a lot of consequences that humans face during this time.

Climate changes are usually driven by events over millions of years.

That's what we're seeing in this graph.

We're talking about entire continents moving across the Earth

and forming land bridges between previously disconnected places.

Planets could get closer together or further apart.

We think the Grand Canyon only started forming around 6 million years ago,

a time frame that's almost impossible to find on a graph at this scale.

Human beings have only been around for a couple hundred thousand years.

That is one pixel on this image.

And I know he says he's studied this stuff.

>> I've studied that.

>> But trying to draw a conclusion about human-caused climate change just by looking

at this graph is a lot like trying to tell me what color someone's

garage door is by looking at this picture of their house.

The impact that industrialized humans have had on the temperature of the Earth over

the past 200 years.

The thing people are actually worried about is represented by 1,000th of this pixel

right here.

So, let's use a more zoomedin graph to see what there is to see.

Yeah, in less than 200 years,

we've already warmed the planet by a degree and a half C.

And by the way, 200 years is generous.

They were still trying to drink oil

as a health tonic in Pennsylvania 200 years ago.

Modern emissions are absolutely insane and they are not slowing down yet.

So, if we look at a graph of Earth's CO2 levels over the past

800,000 years,

that spike in temperature starts making a lot more sense.

Here's hundreds of thousands of years of natural CO2 levels.

Here's the start of the industrial revolution.

And here's where we are now.

About 50% higher than we've been for 800,000 years.

Now, these graphs were not in the article,

so you can't fault Joe for not seeing them in the Washington Post.

They are, however, from NASA,

and eagle-eyed viewers may have noticed

that Joe is wearing a NASA shirt during the interview.

So, little bit of cosmic irony.

But to Joe's credit, this is an interesting graph.

From the perspective of 485 million years,

the Earth is currently in a relatively cool phase.

At its hottest, the Earth's average temperature might have been almost 100° Fahrenheit.

Sea levels were hundreds of feet higher than they are today.

It's crazy.

But when I see the graph, I don't see a climate change hoax.

I see an Earth that is susceptible to having its climate changed.

The global temperature is malleable,

and a few major events have already caused massive changes over relatively short periods

of time.

There also don't appear to be physical guardrails

that stop the earth from reaching extremely high temperatures.

Yes, the climate is always changing, but one,

climate scientists are the ones who told you that in the first place,

and two, the rate of this particular change happening right now is unprecedented in

485 million years.

So, that's probably something we should pay attention to.

But maybe I'm being too hard on Joe Rogan.

I mean, maybe he saw the graph, mentioned it off-handedly to Mel Gibson,

and then never thought about it again.

Totally possible.

Wa!

Looks like we're building up to a big reveal.

I promise it's going to be good.

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And we're back.

Where were we?

Oh, that's right.

The big reveal.

Was this just a one-off thing?

To answer that question,

I took a trip to the Rogan verse to see

if I could find another example of Joe Rogan misusing

that Washington Post graph.

And I couldn't find another one because I found five.

>> The inconvenient actual climate data

that the Washington Post printed

that show that over the last 50 million years,

we're in a decline.

Meanwhile, the Washington Post, uh, unfortunately for a lot of people,

posted like a graph of global temperatures over time.

We're in a cooling stage.

Find the Washington Post uh, climate study.

They found that we're in a massive cooling period.

I'm sure you saw that Washington Post study.

Did you see the Washington Post uh, piece that they wrote?

And each time he seems convinced

that the Washington Post has published a climate expose that's going to send climate

advocates packing.

>> And this was like a very inconvenient discovery,

but they had to report the data.

And kudos to them for doing that.

>> Six times he brings up this article.

He brings it up with Jordan Peterson.

He brings it up with these dudes.

He even shows it to Bernie Sanders.

And every time he has the same bizarre takeaway,

climate advocates don't know what they're talking about because look at this graph.

Look at this graph.

>> Never in my life have I seen someone

so obsessed with an article they don't seem to have read.

And I know Joe Rogan has always considered himself a just asking questions kind

of guy,

but he's got a massive and powerful platform here.

Apparently Joe Rogan can influence the outcomes of presidential elections.

I want to thank the Nel Boys, Aiden Ross, um, uh, uh, Theo Vaughn,

Bustle with the Boys, and last but not least,

the mighty and powerful Joe Rogan.

>> He is not just some dude no one's listening to.

So, when he consistently repeats the same weird lie six times,

>> the temperature on Earth is plummeting.

We're in a massive cooling period, we're in a cooling stage,

we're in a decline, we're in a cooling period, we're in a cooling period.

>> That's not good.

And he's not both sides in this either.

When right-wingers come on the show,

out comes the graph and they're all into it.

And when Bernie Sanders comes on the show to talk about how serious the

climate crisis is,

Joe Rogan shuts down Bernie by bringing up an article

that actually agrees with Bernie's position.

Joe even cuts him off to imply climate scientists are corrupt.

>> You know, the scientists who are out there, I think >> I know,

but there's a lot of money involved in that too, Bernie.

That's part of the problem.

There's a lot of money involved in this this whole climate change emergency issue

and there's a lot of control.

>> To the millions of people who listen to that particular episode,

the takeaway is that Joe Rogan just destroyed Bernie Sanders with facts.

>> And Joe Rogan also schooled Bernie, the socialist with three houses,

a climate change warrior who takes private jets around the country.

>> Joe Rogan came at him with actual facts

that you're not going to hear on corporate news.

And he pushed back on him and Bernie immediately tried to pivot.

He's pivoting.

That's what he's doing.

That's what this is.

This is called >> Bernie Sanders brings up climate change.

>> Mhm.

>> And then Joe Rogan literally rips his nuts off.

>> The issue is that they have talking points.

They don't know what they're talking about

and that's why they don't want to come on these shows >>

and that climate change isn't really anything to worry about.

And just before we forget how opposite Joe's interpretation is,

here's one last quote from Dr.

Emily Jud.

I've seen quite a bit of misinformation crop up surrounding our paper,

particularly the claim that we humans have nothing to worry about with respect to

climate change since the Earth has been warmer for much of the last half

billion years.

I cannot stress enough how reductive and problematic this viewpoint is.

But why did I single out the Mel Gibson episode?

Is it because I wanted to play a bunch of clips of Mel Gibson

acting his ass off in the Lethal Weapon movies?

Of course not, cuz I haven't played any.

Do you really want to jump?

Do you want to?

Yeah.

You want to see crazy?

>> It ain't working, man.

>> Right.

>> Or maybe I just wanted to play a clip from this Diane Sawyer interview.

>> Give me back my son.

>> Hello.

>> You want him?

Yes.

You want him?

>> Get him.

>> Sorry about that.

This Diane Sawyer interview.

>> And then as the officer arrested him, a tirade against Jews.

>> I mean, I said horrible things to him.

Um, and he was pretty patient >> if the police officer had been black.

>> Mhm.

Mhm.

>> What would you have said?

>> But no, that's not it.

This is it.

>> Mel, uh, I am so sorry to be talking to you under these circumstances.

I'm looking at video of the ruins of what was once your home.

>> The literal day they were recording this podcast,

Mel Gibson's house in Los Angeles burned down in the Palisades fire.

Now, I want to be clear.

Climate change was not the only thing that burned Mel Gibson's house down.

But according to disaster experts, climate scientists, the US government, and firefighters,

climate change was a significant contributor in what would go on to be one

of the most destructive fires in recorded California history.

Yes, there have always been fires, and yes,

managing our forests and making our homes more fire resistant is a real thing

that we should really do.

But climate change essentially stacks the deck for fires,

allowing them to burn longer

and hotter and in parts of the year

when there used to be more consistent rainfall.

Firefighters used to be able to use the temperature drop at night to get

control of fires,

but that is increasingly not working.

And the thing that has changed is the climate.

The best way I've heard it described is with baseball

and steroid enthusiast Barry Bonds.

In 2001, he hit an insane 73 home runs.

>> A float to Bonds and it is.

Now, obviously that record was steroid assisted,

but he also hit a ton of home runs before taking steroids.

He looked like this when he had hit 400.

The man can hit home runs without performance-enhancing drugs.

So it's impossible to say whether this particular home run >>

and he hits one high.

He hits one deep coming out of her.

>> Wow, he crushed that.

Okay, that one is probably the steroids.

But it was impossible to tell whether any given home run he hit in

the early 2000s was

because of the steroids

or because of his baseball skills.

But when taken in aggregate,

obviously something changed between this season

and this season and

that thing is probably the steroids.

The climate is basically on the juice

and the result is still fires just with way veinier forearms.

So I'm not saying Mel Gibson deserved to have his house burned down for

talking about the climate crisis.

I'm just saying that you don't have to believe in climate change to be

affected by it.

Now, Mel Gibson's response to the disaster was to go on Fox News to

talk about conspiracy theories about reservoirs

and arsonists and generally everything

but climate change.

>> It just seemed a little convenient that there was no water.

The residents in Corral Canyon caught an arsonist up there.

Do they want the state empty?

I don't know.

It's kind of like an acid trip.

>> But then again, Mel Gibson is very wealthy.

He's going to be fine.

Well, not fine, maybe, but he's going to keep being Mel Gibson.

>> You really are crazy.

I'm hungry.

>> He even knew his house was in danger

while he was talking to Joe Rogan.

And this was his response.

>> I mean, look at the fires in LA, you know?

I mean, what's that going to do?

It's going to give me a new house.

>> Okay, that's a pretty zen response.

Some people can just afford to rebuild their house

and continue living life

as normal.

But with an increasing number of people unable to afford even the basic necessities,

the risks climate change poses to the general population are getting worse in a

hurry.

So I guess if there is a moral to this story,

it's that the media landscape has drastically changed

and people are getting more

and more of their news from podcasters like Joe Rogan.

It doesn't even feel like the news anymore.

It feels like you've got a bunch of unbelievably smart,

well-connected best friends who are having all the right conversations to help you fill

out your vision of the world.

And compared to watching Dan Rather talk about exports,

it is a much more fun

and convenient way to be gigantic air quotes informed.

But here's the thing, podcasts are not news.

They're basically the most entertaining version of a conversation you'd overhear on the street

or at a random bar

or at the ass end of a foldout table on Thanksgiving.

If some dude on the subway starts popping off about how climate change isn't

real,

you're probably not absorbing that.

But if you listen to 30 hours of someone talking,

your brain starts to think, "Hey, maybe this person is a friend of mine.

I like them."

And it becomes a lot harder to recognize

when they are talking out of their asses.

Podcasters generally are not fact-checking and reporting.

They are trying to fill hours of dead air.

And that requires them to speak at length about stuff they don't really know

anything about.

>> Christ is going to come back.

AI is coming.

>> Whoa.

Did you come up with that?

>> Yeah.

>> That'sing awesome, >> right?

It seems like it.

>> That's awesome, >> right?

If you if you think that God is going to return, well,

wouldn't it be?

>> Yeah.

>> It's that completely makes sense.

And a few of them have gotten

so good that they can sound extremely convincing,

even though the graph

that they're pulling up says the opposite of what they think it says.

And to be clear, I'm not trying to cure Joe Rogan.

I beef jerky.

That's enough of that.

If I could completely alter the path of Joe Rogan's life with a climate

comedy YouTube video,

I don't know.

I probably wouldn't have student loan debt.

All I really wanted to do was look at the way climate information got

distorted and spread to millions of people on this one single episode.

And that was just the climate science part.

Joe Rogan and Mel Gibson talked for 2 hours and 20 minutes.

And in that time, they hit all of these topics.

And I don't think they're necessarily wrong on all these things.

They get into topics I know nothing about.

>> Australiathecus or some of the other humanike creatures that never made it like Dennisovvens,

Neandertos.

>> Well, they've got something called Zinganthropus.

You remember him?

>> No.

>> But I do find it hard to believe they're experts on all this

after listening to their 3minut run on climate change,

which didn't even survive a scroll through the article they picked out themselves.

So, I guess what I'm saying is be more vigilant about the information you

are ingesting.

We've gone from a few news channels to a few hundred,000 podcasts

and influencers and Tik Tockers

and YouTube pages.

And as AI generated slop enters the chat,

being on your guard against is more important than ever.

And if you're listening to a podcaster talk about a bunch of different topics,

just imagine you're overhearing that conversation at your favorite dive bar at closing time.

I'm not saying everything they're saying is wrong,

but you might want to do some factchecking in the morning.

Well, I hope you enjoyed our little look at podcast misinformation.

I wish podcasters being wrong about stuff didn't massively affect our government's ability to

combat the climate crisis,

but sadly it kind of does.

And just to pull back the curtain, here at Climate Town,

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Wait, yes, you can.

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Thank you.

And we're back.

Okay, if you watched all of this

and you want to take a deeper dive into the manosphere from one of

the best climate journalists working today,

you really should check out a new podcast series called Carbon Bros from Amy

Westervelt and her co-host Daniel Penny.

Here's a little clip to wet your whistle.

They found that conservative white men were, and I'm quoting here,

significantly more likely than other Americans to endorse denialist views,

and that these differences are even greater for those conservative white males who self-report

understanding global warming very well.

>> They have multiple episodes out right now,

and Joe Rogan is just one of a cast of characters turning climate disinformation

into long and winding conversations.

And honestly, he's not even close to the worst of the bunch.

Carbon Bros., check it out.

Link in the bio.

Also, big thank you to Andrew Destler

and Zeke Housefather for their help on this episode.

They have an incredible substack called the Climate Brink.

Check it out.

Link also in the bio.

And that's the end of the episode.

Thank you so much for watching.

I really appreciate it.

I've said it before.

I'll probably say it again.

If you like what we're doing over here,

the best way to support us is on our Patreon page.

And yeah, you do get access to the Climate Town Land line.

We'll give you the number, you give me a call,

and half the time I'll answer it.

We also have a podcast called The Climate Deniers Playbook and a newsletter.

We have hats and t-shirts, and that's it.

Thanks for watching.

Okay.

Okay.

I have not tried marijuana.

Uh I have never used it at any time.

Wow.

Wow.