0:04 Rose, let's talk a little bit about your origin story.
0:09 You grew up in Santa Clara
0:11 Pueblo surrounded by generations
0:14 of artists and thinkers.
0:16 Your mother, Roxanne Swentzell,
0:18 and your grandmother both forged
0:21 paths that united making
0:23 and When did you first
0:27 sense that art could also be
0:30 a kind of language for survival? Mhm.
0:34 I'm going real deep real fast.
0:35 >> So, yeah, that's really good. I love that.
0:39 I would like to say
0:40 first that there wasn't a difference
0:42 between art and That that everything
0:45 was a creative process
0:47 and everything was applied
0:49 and everything had intention and meaning.
0:52 So, what we did
0:53 um and how we move through the world
0:57 had um an invested
1:00 interest in um creating
1:04 a reality that was aesthetic.
1:07 Um so I think
1:10 that my my mother's an incredible
1:12 sculptor um and she took
1:15 uh the ability that she had been given to work in ceramics
1:19 that came from generations
1:21 and generations before us
1:23 and she used it to communicate
1:25 um in a way that she was needing to
1:28 um and it became our livelihood.
1:30 Um she supported our family with her sculpture.
1:33 Um but it was
1:36 like like the art world was something very strange
1:38 because she was also making the pottery that we ate out of.
1:41 She used her um
1:43 her ability to craft
1:46 earth to build our home,
1:48 to grow our food.
1:50 And so that utility
1:52 and relationship with it was in the in in all walks of our life.
1:58 You've described your childhood
2:00 home as experimental and I understand
2:04 that your mother once turned off the electricity
2:07 to see how the family could adapt. Yeah. How'd that go?
2:12 Uh it was a
2:13 really frustrating when I had to catch the bus
2:17 >> 6:30 in the morning,
2:18 um but I am so
2:21 Uh my my mom
2:23 was always is always still to this day
2:26 searching for ways to
2:28 um to root and to figure out how to apply
2:33 the innate values of relationship
2:36 to earth and being
2:39 um in all walks of life.
2:40 And so, part of that was growing all our own food
2:43 and figuring out how we could live completely sustainably.
2:47 And we have the privilege
2:49 of living in our ancestral
2:50 home um having seed
2:53 and relationship to spirituality
2:55 that can um and foster the farming.
2:59 So, those seeds have been adapted
3:00 to that environment for a very long time.
3:02 Um we have um tradition
3:05 that's passed down for a really long time to be able to support ourselves
3:09 in the high desert of northern New Mexico.
3:11 Um and turning off the
3:15 was one step towards remembering
3:17 what it's like to not be dependent on a system.
3:20 Um and now because
3:22 of the fact that she turned off the electricity,
3:25 she uh homeschooled us for a long time, we grew our own food,
3:28 I can actually hear electricity. Really?
3:31 >> Um yeah, I'm really sensitive
3:33 to um like yeah, it's all
3:36 we we adapt to all the things that we add to our lives and
3:40 when we take it away, then we start realizing
3:42 how much we're affected by it, yeah.
3:45 What did those early experiences
3:47 teach you about self-reliance
3:49 or the connection between self-reliance
3:51 and >> I feel like understanding
3:56 true means that we always have a choice.
4:01 Because my mom didn't put us into the school system, she
4:04 um you know, intentionally
4:06 homeschooled me and my brother from
4:08 early on and we chose to go to school later.
4:10 Um and now we keep going to school.
4:13 Um and I think that was uh
4:16 a a way of her
4:19 building a capacity in us to choose.
4:22 There's always a choice.
4:23 We're not victims to the world that we live in.
4:26 We can always if if we're taught how to be sustainable
4:30 and how to innovate and figure out how to survive in any situation,
4:33 then we are in our agency
4:36 when we navigate the world around us, right?
4:39 That requires self-reliance that
4:42 is not always something
4:44 that we're learned to cultivate as children. Right.
4:48 How do you sustain that?
4:49 How do I sustain that?
4:51 Um I love to remember
4:53 that I don't need
4:55 the things I think I need, right?
4:57 Like we're we're told and told and told that we need X, Y, and Z.
5:00 And and every single day I realize it's a choice I'm making
5:04 and then I'm in my
5:06 my power in relationship to it.
5:08 As long as I don't need it, it doesn't rule me, doesn't own me.
5:11 And so, if I maintain
5:14 my relationship with the natural world, my food sources, et cetera,
5:19 then I am actively
5:20 engaging in the relationships
5:22 that I'm making and that includes
5:24 the art world, that includes
5:26 car culture, that includes
5:28 education, that includes um all the decisions,
5:31 the you know, being here today.
5:34 What intrigues you most about car culture?
5:39 Like are you a Fast and Furious
5:41 fan or is it is it is it more spiritual?
5:45 Um at one point I did like Fast and Furious a lot.
5:48 I've watched all the movies.
5:49 Um Gone in 60 Seconds is my jam.
5:53 So, you've got range.
5:55 >> I grew up in Española,
5:57 New Mexico, which is a town that's adjacent
5:59 It's actually sandwiched between two reservations,
6:02 um two tribal nations,
6:04 um Santa Clara Pueblo and Oke Owinge.
6:06 Um so, the town is
6:08 um the youth culture
6:10 is very mixed between
6:12 indigenous communities and then the local Hispanic communities.
6:16 And so, we grew up together.
6:17 So, like my youth culture
6:19 was very much um
6:21 like lowriders and um like what would be like the total culture Hispanic community there.
6:27 Um and as you know, as a little kid, my mom had a '52
6:31 Willy's truck that she built our house with and there was no room for
6:34 the kids in the front seat.
6:35 So, we used to sit in the bed of the truck as she drove
6:37 through town and I'd be you know, watching all the cars pile up behind
6:40 us because we went max like 40 miles an hour, right?
6:44 And I'd be like looking at all the nice cars and in my head
6:46 I was like, when I grow up, I'm going to have a nice car.
6:49 That was just like,
6:50 you know, the goal, right?
6:52 >> It got to happen. Oh, yeah. >> Oh, yeah.
6:56 Tell us about what's in your garage.
6:58 Um I have two
7:00 um custom cars that I built for
7:04 um for >> in order to have an aesthetic experience.
7:10 What does that mean?
7:11 Um relational aesthetics to me, when I was in graduate school the first time
7:16 I wrote my thesis
7:17 and I studied what indigenous aesthetic means, right?
7:21 And the the closest
7:22 I found was actually
7:24 um uh Japanese aesthetics
7:26 that I was written about
7:27 and um aesthetics of the everyday
7:29 and the intentionality of all that we do and applied aesthetics
7:32 to our lived environment.
7:34 And growing up in Española
7:35 where the cruise line on Sunday is everybody, you know, get in their nice
7:38 car and you put on some good tunes and you lean back and you are present.
7:42 You're enjoying your community,
7:44 you're having a sense of self-worth,
7:46 you're enjoying the sunset,
7:47 you have a good
7:48 drink from Sonic, right?
7:51 Um that feeling is actually presence
7:54 and that feeling is
7:56 is when aesthetic gets reapplied
7:58 to our our life.
8:00 And when we make those
8:01 aesthetic decisions that we are in
8:04 in a state of agency, right?
8:06 We're a state of empowerment in ourselves, right?
8:08 And so, I was building
8:10 myself to have that moment,
8:12 to to create that aesthetic
8:14 experience for myself that I felt was reminiscent
8:18 of what I knew of applied indigenous aesthetics.
8:21 Where it's not in a white cube on a white box in some other
8:24 building somewhere where you don't have necessarily have access to. It's for everyone.
8:28 Everyone has access to that
8:32 But your work does
8:33 um move between disciplines,
8:35 ceramics, metal, automotive restoration,
8:38 performance, and now includes all of them.
8:42 Now, did you always imagine
8:44 those boundaries dissolving or did that happen more organically
8:47 over the work that you've done in your practice?
8:51 I I I always wonder if if I stop
8:54 um being an artist
8:55 in the way that the world is arting,
8:58 I would still be doing stuff.
9:00 I would still be going from one place to the next and making things
9:03 constantly and and I I feel like I'm always interested
9:07 in how I'm a dreamer.
9:09 I constantly am imagining
9:11 the next best thing.
9:12 I'm I am imagining
9:13 I'm laying there like,
9:14 that window should be over there and how can I do that?
9:17 And like I look at a car and I don't see the car, I
9:20 see what it could be, right?
9:21 Like I look at a garden
9:23 and I don't see the garden, I see what it could be and then I begin.
9:27 And I feel like I'll always
9:29 be doing that no matter what.
9:30 I'm always going to be searching
9:32 and whether that's um in the world around me and how to better that
9:36 and how to uh listen to it, ask how I can be of service
9:40 of it and then
9:41 and then do work.
9:43 Um and the satisfaction
9:45 of stepping back and seeing how something transformed
9:48 that is that applied aesthetic
9:49 to the world around me in all things.
9:52 And I feel like that is also internal.
9:54 So, it's also that internal
9:56 um investigation of our psychological
9:59 and spiritual You've called cars vessels. Yeah.
10:07 And many of your figures,
10:10 many of the sculptures
10:11 you make, you've called vessels for transformation. Mhm.
10:16 What do these vessels hold?
10:21 Tell us about that.
10:22 Um I am a vessel
10:24 and I am aware
10:26 and I am moving
10:27 and I am making decisions
10:29 intentionally in this And I make
10:33 ceramic vessels that are hollow inside
10:37 and they are watching
10:39 and they are doing work
10:40 and they are independent
10:41 and they make their own decisions
10:42 and they move through the world with a job to do.
10:45 And so do cars.
10:47 And so do the
10:48 the houses we live in, the spaces we inhabit.
10:50 They're all watching, they're all listening and they're all
10:53 making decisions if we are aware.
10:57 Tell me how you become aware.
11:02 I like to ask
11:03 and I think the first thing that we can do
11:06 is begin to ask
11:09 um and then wait for an answer.
11:12 And I think we have
11:14 so consistently built the muscle
11:16 inside of ourselves of
11:20 prioritizing a human interaction
11:22 that we've stopped understanding
11:26 and believing that we can be in a communication
11:28 with that which is is beyond human, right?
11:31 And so I make anthropomorphized
11:33 vessels in ceramics so that it's a bridge because humans really like to talk
11:37 to other humans and have interactions with those.
11:40 And if we can see
11:42 an anthropomorphized face and start feeling and listening that we can begin
11:46 building that muscle of communication
11:49 with that which we have deemed inanimate.
11:52 One of the things that I've noticed about your work, particularly
11:55 seed, the installation that was in two spaces
11:58 in New York City,
12:00 was that the sculptures that you make, these vessels,
12:04 the eyes are always open. Yeah.
12:07 Sometimes the mouths are open as well, but most of them are closed.
12:11 I'm assuming that these are very deliberate, conscious decisions.
12:15 Can you talk about that?
12:16 Because although they're anthropomorphized,
12:19 they feel very real.
12:20 They don't feel there's a step between
12:24 real humanity, anthropomorphized humanity.
12:27 So can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah.
12:30 I when I make my figurative work,
12:33 I I don't always include things that I don't think are necessarily
12:36 important like arms or hair.
12:39 >> But they do have um the senses.
12:43 So they have ears, nose, mouth, eyes
12:46 because I want them to be to have what they need
12:50 to soak in the world around them and to create
12:53 a relationship with that.
12:54 And that we see that in that we will also build a relationship
12:59 understanding that they are sensing us. Right?
13:03 Um and so that is why I choose to do that.
13:06 Um and you know, when I cut the eyes
13:09 into the clay the first time
13:11 I always say hello.
13:15 There's been a lot
13:16 of writing in the last couple of years
13:19 about how artists of any discipline
13:24 are vessels for creative communication.
13:28 Rick Rubin talked about that in his book The Creative Act.
13:31 Elizabeth Gilbert talked about that in her TED Talk
13:34 about how we have to be open to the idea
13:38 of creativity coming through us, that we are the muse
13:41 for creativity and allow that creativity
13:45 to be born through our >> Yeah.
13:48 Do you do you feel that way as well? Totally.
13:51 How do you feel like that happens?
13:52 I'm so I'm I'm I'm waiting,
13:54 you know, I'm like, come on. Come on. Come through.
13:58 Um how how do you how does that feel?
14:01 Uh for instance, when I'm doing a public
14:03 art piece, I have to go to the place.
14:05 I have to sit there.
14:07 And I ask and I wait for an answer.
14:10 I say, what needs to be here?
14:12 What needs to be told?
14:13 What story needs to be, you know,
14:16 um manifested here to make change
14:17 and how can I be of service?
14:20 And then I wait and I listen and it always real fast. Yeah?
14:25 It's like it's like truth. There's only truth.
14:27 And when you're in alignment
14:29 with it, it's like you just tuned into it and boom, you found it.
14:32 And then you're like, okay, time to get started.
14:34 And so when I enter into the studio
14:37 and I and I, you know, I get into that place, it's like, okay,
14:40 what needs to be done?
14:42 What needs to be said?
14:43 How can I be of service?
14:45 When I when I first met my 1985
14:47 Chevy El Camino Is that Maria? Maria. Yeah.
14:51 She, you I when I first painted her
14:55 the first day I painted her, she's a satin black with a gloss clear
14:58 made to look like our traditional pottery.
15:01 I brought her home and I was sitting on the porch with a
15:04 folding chair and I was looking at her and I was like, I didn't do this. This wasn't me.
15:09 She used me to make her
15:13 into what she was always meant to be and I just
15:16 And and it's incredible
15:18 to see and give the power back
15:20 and say, thank you for choosing me
15:24 to be a part of this process of your
15:27 How involved do you feel
15:29 you are in the aesthetic?
15:35 If there's something that you're making,
15:37 are you in the process
15:39 while making also evaluating the making?
15:42 Oh, I love the subject of aesthetic.
15:45 Um I I like teaching aesthetics to students etc.
15:49 Because have you ever heard the term don't yuck my yum? Mhm.
15:53 So to me aesthetic
15:55 is when we let go of our thoughts
15:58 and and and find our yum.
16:02 And sometimes what we thought was our yum
16:04 isn't if we sit with it long enough, right?
16:07 So it's like, how do you refine
16:09 and refine and refine
16:11 your yum until it's just mhm right? What is that?
16:17 And how do we
16:18 live in that long enough to where it's like, no, it's actually
16:21 just a little left.
16:23 And if you close your eyes
16:25 you feel it And that's where it is, right?
16:29 That's that is the finding of it. Is tuning. Yeah.
16:33 Is tuning to it.
16:34 I think also having that self-reliance,
16:37 all the way going all the way back to your origin
16:39 story, to know that you can trust
16:43 your sense and your judgment. >> Yeah.
16:45 And it takes a it's a muscle. Yeah.
16:47 I think it's a muscle and we have to build it.
16:50 You've talked about animacy,
16:53 the soul of And you blur the line
16:56 between making and being.
16:59 And a lot of that, as you said, is about listening.
17:04 What kind of silence
17:05 do you hope your work leaves behind?
17:11 The silence I hope my work leaves behind is the one that
17:15 that is full of information.
17:20 Because there's so much
17:23 to learn when we shut up. There's so much.
17:29 >> And my pieces, unless they're 410
17:32 horsepower or 350 going really fast, are very quiet.
17:37 And in that silence there's connection.
17:41 Thank you, Rose Simpson.
17:43 Thank you for having me.
