0:01 What does it take to speak openly about one of life's most personal battles?
0:05 In this heartfelt conversation, Bollywood star Deepika Paradakone shares her journey with depression,
0:12 the role of her support system,
0:13 and her fight to change the way India sees mental health.
0:17 Watch until the end for her powerful message of hope and action.
0:22 >> Well, hello everyone.
0:25 When we as Indians imagine ourselves a certain way,
0:31 how the world looks at us,
0:32 I think we think of ourselves as this rockers can do democracy.
0:36 And some of us may be shocked to discover
0:38 that while we are all of
0:40 that,
0:40 we are also the most depressed country in the world.
0:44 I'm not sure how many of you actually knew
0:46 that cuz when I discovered it,
0:47 it was a real revelation to me
0:49 that 36% of us
0:51 as Indians are or will be depressed at some point in our lives.
0:56 Let me share another statistic before I introduce my guest this morning. 371 people
1:03 at last count,
1:04 371 Indians killed themselves every day.
1:10 That was approximately more than 1 lakh 34,000 people kill themselves every year in
1:17 India.
1:19 And yet the irony is
1:21 that we continue to see depression
1:23 and mental health issues
1:25 as some sort of self-indulgence
1:27 as some sort of problem of the rich
1:28 and famous as not really where the priority of science
1:32 and medicine should be.
1:34 Well, here we are in conversation with two people who going to tell us
1:38 why that needs to change
1:40 and that needs to change yesterday.
1:42 First up, somebody who actually does not need an introduction.
1:46 We know her from our cinema.
1:48 She's one of our most celebrated actors,
1:50 but she's somebody I admire for a different reason.
1:54 In addition to her star power and her talent,
1:57 she decided to go public with a deeply personal
1:59 and intimate story on her own struggle with depression. in fact in a one-hour
2:04 nationally televised interview with me
2:07 and then wanted to follow it up with concrete action.
2:11 So actually created a foundation to help others who grapple with the same issues.
2:16 They once again I must compliment you on your courage
2:19 because it does take courage
2:21 and it takes courage for somebody like you even more than all of us
2:23 in this room to talk about our struggles
2:26 because you're a you're in the public gaze.
2:28 There are hundred things
2:29 that will be said
2:30 that have been said including really lowlevel things like oh she's probably just doing
2:36 this to promote her next film right
2:39 and I know because I was in
2:41 that conversation with you
2:42 when you broke your silence on this on television how difficult it was for
2:46 you how painful how raw
2:48 when you talk about it
2:50 and therefore I'm going to say sorry
2:51 because I am going to in a sense put you through
2:54 that moment again because there are people in this room who may not be
2:57 familiar with your own story.
2:59 So, let me start by asking you
3:01 when did you know
3:03 that you were depressed?
3:04 When did you start calling it depressed?
3:08 And why did you, this fantastical woman on our screens,
3:13 decide to go public with something so personal?
3:19 >> Um, I think it started with just a feeling.
3:22 Um you know just it started with just a feeling of not um of
3:27 not being completely there of feeling like um you know like we we spoke
3:34 about that pittish feeling in your stomach where >> you know
3:38 and just breaking down for no reason.
3:42 >> Um and truly just feeling completely lost
3:45 and not understanding what was happening to me.
3:49 And I think it was the intervention of my mother um who was visiting
3:54 me at that time.
3:55 And I think I I I lived with it for a while actually.
3:57 I was I was filming a movie at
3:59 that time and I had no idea what what I was going through
4:02 and I'd go to work every day.
4:04 I'd literally have to pull myself out of bed and and go to work.
4:09 And my mother just happened to visit me completely different context.
4:13 And the day she was leaving, I remember breaking down.
4:16 And um I was extremely surprised actually today
4:20 when I think back at how aware she was >> of what I was
4:26 going through.
4:27 And the first thing she did was to call um a family friend
4:31 and Anna Chandi who's a counselor.
4:33 Um but today when I think back
4:36 and of course I was hesitant at
4:37 that point because I w I wasn't aware of what I was going through.
4:42 I um and at the same time for me Anna is someone who's also
4:48 a family friend.
4:49 So I think that's where I I I I sought comfort.
4:53 >> But at the same time I don't know
4:54 if I would have done the same thing
4:56 if I didn't have um you know sort of
4:58 that comfort level.
4:59 But it was my mother who really sort of identified the symptoms
5:05 and immediately called her up
5:07 and in one phone conversation with Anna she sort of understood what I was
5:11 going through but at the same time I think it's the way she dealt
5:14 with me and with the situation at
5:16 that point she didn't raise any alarms.
5:19 Um she made me feel like it was completely normal
5:23 and okay and that we will get through this.
5:26 Um and then of course um you know with her and Dr.
5:30 Shambhut who you know have worked on me um you know
5:36 so I I think initially I was also reluctant to take medication >> um
5:43 but I think at one point I was just extremely exhausted. um I couldn't
5:48 do it anymore and I
5:49 and I think that's
5:50 when I decided to sort of I said okay you know let me let
5:54 me let me start medication let me let me accept this help
5:58 that people are willing to give me um
6:02 and you know today there's a lot more awareness um I don't I don't
6:08 think I can say
6:08 that I'm completely over it
6:12 but um it's always a fear at the back of my mind
6:15 that I might always have a relapse
6:17 because it's been such a bad experience for me.
6:20 >> What was the most I mean I remember you telling me
6:23 that you felt that pit in your stomach.
6:24 You felt empty.
6:25 You felt directionless.
6:27 >> Yeah.
6:27 >> That you would lock yourself in your vanity van
6:29 and sometimes just cry
6:31 and you did not know why you were crying.
6:33 That sometimes it helped to have people around
6:35 but sometimes it was the exact opposite.
6:37 You know that sense of being closed in by a crowd
6:40 when you're feeling isolated within yourself.
6:42 It helped having people I was close to and familiar with.
6:46 It was comforting to have them around
6:48 because then I could break down
6:51 if I felt like
6:52 and if I had questions
6:53 or thoughts in my head,
6:55 I wouldn't hesitate to ask.
6:57 But at the same time,
6:58 if I was in front of the media
7:00 or at an event uh
7:01 which happened many many times,
7:04 um that's when I'd feel a bit uh suffocated
7:08 because >> I didn't want to break down in public.
7:11 And this is before I made up my mind to go public with with
7:15 uh what I was dealing with.
7:17 Today, if that happens to me, if I ever go back to that space,
7:20 and I I hope I don't,
7:23 um I don't think I'd think twice about exposing the way I feel.
7:30 And I think a large part of one's road to recovery is to accept
7:36 what you're going through.
7:37 Um, and to not challenge it, but to embrace it and um,
7:43 to actually allow your body
7:44 and your mind to go through
7:45 that experience and know
7:47 that there is there is a road ahead >>
7:50 that will get you out of all of this.
7:51 And it's not an individual um,
7:53 I I don't think I could have done it on my own.
7:55 I think it's very important to have that support system.
7:59 So while you know people credit me uh for coming out
8:03 and speaking out I think it's equally important for caregivers to to acknowledge
8:09 and for us to acknowledge
8:10 that it's important for them to be with us on this journey.
8:13 >> Now before I get Dr.
8:14 Dwami in I want you to talk a little bit about the continued uh
8:18 the continued stigma the continued stigma associated with mental health issues with depression in
8:24 particular. uh even today
8:27 if I were to be honest uh in terms of eliciting responses here even
8:31 in this room with very educated very aware people in drawing rooms you will
8:36 hear lose and idol chatter saying oh why isika depressed she has everything she
8:41 has money she's she's fame she has talent she's going places she's you know
8:45 it's it depression is treated
8:47 as a indulgence like you know only people who have no real problems are
8:53 depressed so when You came out in
8:56 that conversation and millions of people saw it online on television,
9:00 read about it.
9:02 Were you worried that the people were going to be horribly mean?
9:06 And were some people horribly mean?
9:10 >> No, I don't think anyone was mean.
9:12 But um I didn't even think about it.
9:16 I didn't think about the repercussions.
9:18 I think the idea >> you didn't have a moment of how will this
9:21 impact my public image?
9:22 >> No, not at all.
9:23 But I think for me the idea really was to just change the way
9:26 people in India and in the world look at mental illness
9:30 and you know give it the respect
9:34 that it needs.
9:35 Um, you know, I think the idea really was to just change the conversation
9:40 because I had experienced like literally a pre
9:42 and post and I lived with it for a couple of months without sharing
9:48 it with anyone and
9:49 then today I feel
9:50 so much lighter and
9:52 so much better when I've
9:53 when I've come out
9:54 and I've spoken about my journey
9:55 and um I know a lot of other people who do um there's not
10:00 a single day where I've probably not met someone who has come up to
10:04 me and said thank Thank you for sharing the story.
10:07 But what's also helped them is the fact
10:08 that they've then shared their story with someone saying I know what the's been
10:13 through because I'm going through the exact same thing
10:15 and they instantly feel a lot lighter.
10:18 What was the toughest thing about that phase of your life?
10:22 Was it feeling like nobody's going to understand?
10:24 Was it the sense of losing control?
10:26 Was it the sense of, you know,
10:30 surrendering almost like you almost have to surrender to it before you can get
10:35 better?
10:35 You can't fight it.
10:36 A lot of people think it's mind over matter,
10:38 but actually depression is matter of a kind.
10:42 And I'm going to talk to the doc about it in a second.
10:44 But what was the toughest thing about that phase of your life?
10:49 The phase itself.
10:51 The phase itself.
10:52 Um, I think before the intervention, I think before I understood,
10:57 before my mother saw it, before anyone else saw it,
11:00 to have to wake up every morning to drag myself to work,
11:03 to put on this face like everything's okay
11:06 when deep down inside I had no reason why I was where I was
11:10 and what I was doing.
11:11 And um, life just it felt like there was no purpose.
11:18 I didn't feel like it it made absolutely no sense.
11:22 It's just life made no sense.
11:24 Um so for me I think that was the that was the toughest part.
11:29 >> Deepika when you first started taking treatment
11:33 and I don't uh
11:34 and I'm saying even before the medication um did you find it really difficult
11:40 to not outsmart your therapist
11:44 because what a lot of us who think of ourselves
11:46 as reasonably intelligent we say we know ourselves. we know ourselves
11:51 and you know what are you going to tell me some stranger sitting on
11:53 a couch that I don't already know about myself talk a little bit about
11:57 that process I mean how difficult is it to walk into this room
12:00 and start bearing your soul to another person who even
12:05 if in your case was a family friend there are still barriers
12:08 and the thing about taking help for depression it's a little bit like
12:13 when we get a surgery we don't care
12:16 if our doctor sees us nude
12:18 because we have to take our clothes off
12:20 and get that anesthesia
12:21 and get that treatment.
12:22 So this is like bearing your soul.
12:24 It is bearing your soul to somebody and it's tough.
12:29 So talk a little bit about
12:30 that process of getting help
12:32 and the obstacles you had to jump over within yourself.
12:39 >> I think for me there was this stigma before >> not once you started.
12:45 >> Yeah.
12:45 But well, once I once I made up my mind, once I decided that,
12:49 you know, I'm like, I'm done.
12:51 I can't I can't live like this anymore.
12:54 And, you know, I want to get better.
12:56 I need to get better.
12:58 And then it was a deep dive.
13:00 >> There's no halfway.
13:01 I don't know if there is, but it wasn't for me.
13:03 So, the day I decided to then seek help and speak about it and,
13:08 you know, speak to my parents, speak to my sisters, speak to my doctors,
13:12 then I'd share everything with them.
13:15 So there was no uh >> no barriers no holding back.
13:18 No, no.
13:20 Every question that they asked, everything they wanted to know, past, present,
13:26 whatever they wanted to know, um, I shared everything with them.
13:30 >> They one of the things we didn't speak about is, you know,
13:33 why did you decide to go public?
13:35 The foundation I'll come to,
13:36 but you you didn't confine to sharing your story to your your your mother
13:42 and father and your therapist. you actually took it out to the country to
13:46 the world and that could not have been easy
13:49 and I remember one of the things you said was
13:51 that if I can change even one life this was worth it.
13:56 >> Yeah.
13:56 >> But you must have wrestled with that choice at some point.
13:59 Do I keep it within the home?
14:00 Do I take it public?
14:02 And I bring it back to the fact
14:05 that you live in the public gaze
14:07 which makes your going public with it a different narrative than from you know
14:12 if she went public with it.
14:14 So what made you say not just am I going to get better I'm
14:18 going to tell this story to everybody who cares to listen to it.
14:23 >> I think it was at multiple levels bark.
14:25 I think one like I said after having been through what I did,
14:30 if I could share my story
14:32 and if anyone in the world heard me
14:34 and identified with what I went through
14:37 and could come out of it
14:38 or understand and you know
14:41 if I could make a difference to at least one life,
14:45 I felt at that point I you know all of you know going public
14:50 speaking about it would be justified.
14:53 Um I also felt like the narrative around mental health in India needed to
15:00 change.
15:01 Um and I I can do that today.
15:05 The very reason why we're sitting here today um
15:10 because I felt like
15:12 when I hadn't and like I said I was also working at
15:16 that point.
15:19 I was like, why why why can I not tell someone
15:22 when someone asks me how am I doing?
15:24 Like the the the film
15:26 that you just saw before we came in is I think what got to
15:32 me was when people were asking me how you how are you doing
15:36 and one day I thought are they really asking me how I'm doing?
15:40 Do they actually have the time to listen
15:42 if I said I'm not feeling okay?
15:45 Will they actually give me
15:46 that moment and understand what I'm going through
15:49 or >> is it just perun?
15:51 >> Is it just superficial?
15:52 When we ask people how are you doing?
15:54 Is it just superficial?
15:55 Is it just you know formality
15:58 because that's the way we've been brought up like just ask
16:00 and yeah I'm fine.
16:01 Oh great everything's great.
16:02 Is everything really okay?
16:05 >> And I wasn't okay.
16:06 So I think that's what really got to me because I wasn't okay.
16:09 And >> it reached a stage where I was like why can't I just
16:13 tell people that I'm not okay?
16:14 Mhm.
16:15 >> It was just
16:16 that um and you know
16:21 and that's when I reached out
16:22 and that's when I felt like I needed to talk about it.
16:25 I felt like because I felt bottled.
16:28 I felt caged.
16:29 I felt like I felt like I needed to fly
16:35 or swim or just not be boxed
16:41 and and to feel free.
16:42 And I feel so free today.
16:44 Terrific.
16:48 >> Fantastic.
16:48 >> Thank you.
16:51 >> It is you.
16:52 You underplay uh I think the courage that you have shown.
16:55 You have shown extraordinary courage.
16:57 I've said that to you a million times.
16:58 I will say it a million times more.
17:00 Why the foundation?
17:04 Because I felt like just talking about it.
17:07 Um I want to help people.
17:12 I want them to understand what they are going through.
17:17 We want to create awareness.
17:19 We want to tell people
17:20 that it's a it's okay to feel the way you do
17:23 if you're feeling a certain way.
17:24 It's absolutely all right.
17:27 Um so to create the awareness to reduce the stigma
17:31 which is going to take us many many years.
17:33 Um having said that I think in just the last two years I feel
17:37 like the conversation has really >> shifted >> shifted.
17:41 Um is it going to happen soon?
17:44 Maybe not.
17:45 But have we are we moving in the right direction?
17:48 Most definitely.
17:49 Um so to create the awareness to reduce the stigma um to go into
17:55 schools and colleges and educate teachers,
17:57 educate students, educate parents that there is something like this that exists.
18:02 It's there.
18:03 It's happening.
18:03 It's happening all around us.
18:06 And do something about it before it's too late.
18:08 Um, suicide, depression is the next big epidemic to hit the world
18:14 if it isn't already.
18:18 >> And reach out to corporates, reach out to the corporate world,
18:20 tell them that it's
18:21 so important in your workplace to identify what you're going through
18:25 because the pressures are
18:26 so high to identify the people
18:28 that you work with u you know to help them
18:31 if you see sort of any symptoms.
18:33 Um I think basically just to create the awareness
18:37 and hopefully one day you know we also want to be the happiest country
18:41 in the world.
18:42 We don't want to be the most depressed.
18:44 We don't want to be the country with the highest suicide rate in the
18:48 world.
18:49 Look at your own life.
18:50 If you had gone to a film producer and said,
18:52 "I can't do this film right now or because I'm depressed."
18:55 What do you think would have the the the response would have been?
19:03 >> Maybe there are people who haven't offered me films
19:05 because they think I'm depressed
19:06 and I can't act.
19:07 I don't know.
19:09 >> You think you think that's happened?
19:11 >> Maybe.
19:12 I don't know.
19:13 It has.
19:14 >> And did that make you ever regret going public?
19:16 >> I'm in a I'm in a good space because I can choose the movies.
19:19 No, I know >> I want to do but I don't think everyone has,
19:22 you know, has that luxury of choosing where they want to work
19:26 when they want to work.
19:28 >> So, it's important for the organizations to understand
19:31 that we need to treat this the same way
19:33 as as anything else.
19:35 I think it's equally important to have uh frequent sessions in in your corporate
19:41 offices about the importance of mental health.
19:43 I think it's important to to have a tie up with a counselor
19:47 or maybe have an in-house counselor
19:49 or or a yeah,
19:51 maybe not a psychiatrist,
19:52 but it's it's important to have an in-house counselor
19:54 when when you know your staff is burnt out,
19:57 they need to talk, they want to speak to someone,
19:59 somebody's there or at least make them aware that they should.
20:04 And I feel today it's important to just seek help of a counselor anyway
20:08 because our lives are
20:09 so fast-paced with technology with
20:13 so much going on in the world.
20:15 I don't think there's any harm in just seeing a counselor anyway
20:19 because >> did you continue to um see a counselor even after you got
20:24 better?
20:26 >> Um yeah on and off on and off whenever you need.
20:29 I know a lot of my friends who who've never experienced anxiety or depression,
20:34 but it's very important for them to see a counselor,
20:38 to see their counselor every now and then.
20:40 A lot of people do, and we need to normalize that as well.
20:43 Um, a lot of people say, "I have a meeting.
20:47 You lie about it."
20:49 Um, I'm in the middle of something, I'll call you back.
20:54 You know, um, or, you know, just lie and say,
20:57 "I went to a general practitioner." uh you know we we need to normalize
21:00 it.
21:00 We it has to be as normal as anything else.
21:02 >> Uh I think it is fair to say
21:04 that the Pika's public accounting
21:07 or chronicling of her own story uh is not just brave
21:10 but it has a purpose to it.
21:12 Let's just say that the foundation the telling of the story is a purpose
21:15 that the next time somebody says to you
21:18 that they are depressed please treat them with the respect
21:21 that that sentiment that
21:23 that ailment it is an ailment
21:26 and it is treatable to some degree preventable to some degree like any other
21:31 physical ailment and that would perhaps be the biggest service we can do to
21:35 people like the pika
21:36 and Dr. to Durai Swami who work in this area.
21:38 Let's have a round of applause for our guest today.
21:41 Thank you very much.
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